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Owen Patterson and sleaze- a shameful day in the House

(326 Posts)
Kali2 Wed 03-Nov-21 18:42:12

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/03/call-out-tories-corruption-conservative-owen-paterson-keir-starmer?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1635960844

glad some Cons MPs had the guts to say this is totally wrong and would damage the Conservative Party and all who voted in favour- and of course Johnson.

westendgirl Fri 05-Nov-21 13:00:11

Sorry I made a mistake about Theresa May. I was reading from the full list and must have slipped a name.Apologies.

GillT57 Fri 05-Nov-21 13:13:29

Urmstongran

But relevant surely if we are talking about MP’s behaviour?

Only if we are playing some kind of MP Top Trumps. The woman concerned was dismissed from the Labour party and was standing as an Independent. Her crimes were dreadful, but not relevant, however hard you try, to the discussions about Patterson and the associated sleaze.

growstuff Fri 05-Nov-21 13:18:58

Urmstongran

But relevant surely if we are talking about MP’s behaviour?

No, we're talking about an attempt to undermine accountability. Wake up at the back!

MaizieD Fri 05-Nov-21 13:19:27

Urmstongran

Boris has an instinct for public opinion which is more accurate than that of most other politicians. This is why he wins almost all the elections and votes he takes part in. If he loses on an issue, he U-turns quickly and moves on. You may call it unprincipled but he is successful. Who do you think is cleverer?

You could say that about a great many populist leaders, but does that actually benefit the countries that they 'lead'?

MaizieD Fri 05-Nov-21 13:20:53

Only if we are playing some kind of MP Top Trumps.

I think that's the only sort of game Ug understands when it comes to politics.

What is of benefit to the country is irrelevant.

Alegrias1 Fri 05-Nov-21 13:31:02

To be fair to UG at least she has showed up to put her side of the argument! Even though I don't agree with her wink

Urmstongran Fri 05-Nov-21 13:38:59

Alegrias ??
Maybe it’s just a case of ‘fools jump in where angels fear to tread’!
No comments please.
?

PippaZ Fri 05-Nov-21 13:45:41

Boris has an instinct for public opinion which is more accurate than that of most other politicians.

I don't think he has Urmstongran. This vote has been (so far) the crassest, most undemocratic action of his many undemocratic actions. It appears those who can see this are feeling very disillusioned with our current leader. The results of the scandal have been dire for the Government, which has seen a five-point overnight slump in the polls - leaving them just one point above Labour. [Express Fri, Nov 5, 2021}

You say You may call it unprincipled but he is successful. Who do you think is cleverer? You seem to be suggesting being unprincipled doesn't matter? I would agree that a con artist is a certain type of "clever". However, that does not mean they would be the best person to run our country.

Nadhim Zahawi, the Education Secretary, insisted the ambition of reforming the wider process of investigating MP standards was right, tacking it onto a vote about the long-standing North Shropshire MP was not the right approach.

So this is right now a Tory says it but you argued against it all yesterday because Tories were saying the opposite. There is such a thing as thinking for yourself. You ask who is "cleverer". I would say the people who know it is the wrong thing to do before they go through the process of being seen to make such a monumental error.

Gwyneth Fri 05-Nov-21 13:57:47

Well at least he’s now resigned which is only right under the circumstances.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 05-Nov-21 14:03:27

What I want to know is, is why has the Daily Mail suddenly turned on Johnson?

growstuff Fri 05-Nov-21 14:09:58

Maybe because they can see the writing is on the wall and they don't want to be on the losing side?

MayBee70 Fri 05-Nov-21 14:21:19

Urmstongran

Boris has an instinct for public opinion which is more accurate than that of most other politicians. This is why he wins almost all the elections and votes he takes part in. If he loses on an issue, he U-turns quickly and moves on. You may call it unprincipled but he is successful. Who do you think is cleverer?

He has an instinct for the lower levels of public opinion. However he has miscalculated here in that many long term Conservative voters do so because they are Conservative with a small c and have very high moral standards. He has brought shame to the party. Look at how people like Rory Stewart, a politician who surely represents those good, decent Conservative voters wouldn’t countenance serving in a government led by Johnson.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 05-Nov-21 14:30:26

Stewart calling Johnson out. So many Tories with integrity have done the same, but for some reason so called tory supporters chose not to believe them.

growstuff Fri 05-Nov-21 14:30:29

No 10 has ruled that Johnson does not have to declare the value of his holiday in Zac Goldsmith's villa:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/05/boris-johnson-will-not-declare-spanish-holiday-in-mps-register-says-no-10

This is despite the fact that Goldsmith was made a peer after he lost his seat and was given a government job.

growstuff Fri 05-Nov-21 14:33:20

Whitewavemark2

Stewart calling Johnson out. So many Tories with integrity have done the same, but for some reason so called tory supporters chose not to believe them.

Both Rory Stewart and the new editor of the Daily Mail are Old Etonians. Not sure it means anything in particular, but I don't suppose they're intimidated by Johnson or impressed by his antics.

GillT57 Fri 05-Nov-21 14:34:02

Alegrias1

To be fair to UG at least she has showed up to put her side of the argument! Even though I don't agree with her wink

true, quite a few others noticeable by their absence......

Whitewavemark2 Fri 05-Nov-21 14:35:00

growstuff

No 10 has ruled that Johnson does not have to declare the value of his holiday in Zac Goldsmith's villa:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/05/boris-johnson-will-not-declare-spanish-holiday-in-mps-register-says-no-10

This is despite the fact that Goldsmith was made a peer after he lost his seat and was given a government job.

So is that Johnson ruling that Johnson doesn’t have to declare the value if the holiday?

growstuff Fri 05-Nov-21 14:36:42

That just about sums it up.

It's a bit like the appeals process he wanted, which would have had a Conservative majority.

GillT57 Fri 05-Nov-21 14:42:56

However he has miscalculated here in that many long term Conservative voters do so because they are Conservative with a small c and have very high moral standards. Exactly! I am unable to believe how anyone can excuse the lies, infidelity, unfaithfulness (personal and political), bluster and sheer nonsense that this lazy incompetent man comes out with, not my moral code and not the moral code of many of the country either I think. The MPs who are made to look fools by him, defending something one day, defending the opposite the next day need to have a good think about how long they want to be associated with this lying clown, it may come back to haunt them in the future, social media has a long memory.......

Whitewavemark2 Fri 05-Nov-21 14:46:27

The Guardian has listed the u-turns, etc that Johnson has done since becoming PM.

Astounding!

Lucca Fri 05-Nov-21 14:47:38

Whitewavemark2

Stewart calling Johnson out. So many Tories with integrity have done the same, but for some reason so called tory supporters chose not to believe them.

Lovely bit of writing !

Lucca Fri 05-Nov-21 14:48:52

GillT57

Alegrias1

To be fair to UG at least she has showed up to put her side of the argument! Even though I don't agree with her wink

true, quite a few others noticeable by their absence......

… better things to do… have a life….etc etc!

Whitewavemark2 Fri 05-Nov-21 15:06:51

Article by Keir Starmer

“Remember, remember the third of November – the day Boris Johnson and his cronies attempted to give politicians a free rein to behave however they like, free from scrutiny or sanction. It is fitting that the Prime Minister chose this week to pile the reputations of 248 of his own MPs on his bonfire of corruption.

Seeing Conservative members line up like drones to vote to scrap the body that polices their behaviour was utterly depressing. Many have suddenly become brave after the event, claiming they knew it was a bad idea all along. They should be judged by their actions, not their words.

But the blame – all the blame – is on the Prime Minister. More sordid details are emerging, including reports that the Government threatened to withdraw funding for constituencies of MPs who voted against his plans. Reflect on that for a second – if you’ve got a Tory MP and they want to take a stand against corruption, Boris Johnson will respond by taking money from your local school, your local hospital and your local high street.
It suits the Tories to pretend that all politics is a sewer. It lowers public expectations and allows them to get away with it. But this week we’ve seen that simply isn’t true. I am proud that Labour MPs acted as a vanguard and voted against the Prime Minister’s latest attempts to poison the well.

By refusing to recognise their sham committee, we rendered it a farce that couldn’t stand, beating them back into a humiliating U-turn.

For the Conservatives to now claim they want “cross party talks” is frankly embarrassing. The problem is, there is very little common ground – the Tories have shown this week that they want a weaker system that allows MPs to break the rules and their mates to let them off. Labour wants a tougher system, one that can restore faith in our democracy and our political system.

If I were Prime Minister, we would have an Office of Value for Money on behalf of taxpayers, an anti-corruption commission with real teeth and far greater transparency on how your hard-earned money is spent. And we’d toughen the rules so MPs can’t profit from their office and open the door to vested interests. That is a serious plan to clean up Westminster.

Our politics should be a beacon of what is good and what is possible. MPs are rightly held to a higher standard. When those standards aren’t met, we should have the courage to admit it. The British public can forgive mistakes – they can’t forgive arrogance and lies.
So the first thing the Prime Minister should now do is say sorry. Not just for this week’s disgrace, but for the way he tried to get Dominic Cummings and Matt Hancock off the hook. Or the way he has allowed his government to use Covid as cover for siphoning billions of pounds of taxpayer money to his friends and donors. At a time when the Tories are raising taxes for every household in the country by £3,000, the least people can expect in return is that the Prime Minister doesn’t thumb his nose at them. Failure to apologise will lead to one obvious conclusion – that Boris Johnson truly believes there should be one rule for him and his friends, another for the rest of us.

As Director of Public Prosecutions, securing the interests of ordinary people against the crooked and the powerful, I’ve seen this attitude many times before. It is the hallmark of every out of touch, arrogant, condescending elite that thinks they should be above scrutiny. But something I’ve learned over the years is that pride comes before a fall. You might get away with it for a while, but it always catches up with you in the end. If the Prime Minister continues down this path – of sleaze, cronyism, corruption – the lesson from this week is that it will be on the ballot box at the next election.”

Barmeyoldbat Fri 05-Nov-21 15:36:25

I just don’t know how you an keep on defending this self serving, corrupt PM Urn.

GillT57 Fri 05-Nov-21 15:53:02

Starmer has nailed it. Where is this letter published?