Is English cricket, not just Yorkshire cricket, institutionally racist?

I think they are all as bad as each other all the races seems to use offence words against each other and unfortunately the media as decided that the caucasians seem to be classed as the worst

Sometime it is not what you say, but the way that you say it.

He was 19 and probably had, himself, already experienced racism. He was old enough to have known better.

It’s the same with most sports. It’s there and it always will be unless as a child you have parents who raised to respect all cultures. I have a mixed race gd we love her dearly but she has to put up with a lot of nasty remarks.

MOnica I thought he had apologised - it's not reasonable that he is expected to apologise personally to every person of the Jewish faith, surely? And, with respect, you cannot know what is in his heart and mind, and suggest that his apology is false and his attitude unchanged. These remarks we made when he was nineteen.

If you have the courage to stand up against racism, as Azeem Rafiq has done, then you must know that your own record will be searched minutely. It would have been better if he had admitted sending these posts/tweets/whatever, right at the start and said that now he has had experience of racism himself, he realises just how heinous his own offence was.

Anyone can admit being deeply ashamed of themselves to get themselves out of trouble, without having to change their unexpressed views and with no apopogy to the people he has himself, subjected to racism.

Azeem Rafiq has apologised and said he is deeply ashamed. I am wondering what more he is expected to do? (^'So that's allright then?'^) Is there anyone who has not displayed an attitude towards someone else that they subsequently regretted, or said words, or had thoughts that they now feel are wrong? 'When we know better, we do better' must apply to almost everyone, I know it applies to me, and I would hope to be forgiven and not to be castigated for ever for immature mistakes. 'Never put it in writing' is wise counsel.

wellbeck I am afraid you are quite wrong in assuming that children in state schools have no opportunity or encouragement to play cricket. It is something that is actively encouraged by the English and Welsh Cricket Boards. Kwik Cricket was introduced in 1988 by the ECB to introduce children to cricket and the emphasis is very much on enjoyment.

The teams are for eight players, both boys and girls, and is played with a plastic bat and ball, and tournaments are enthusiastically attended. Schools played schools in their own area and the winners went on to play teams from adjoining counties.

This certainly whetted the appetite for the game in our area, and it encouraged many boys and girls to form school teams and to join the junior section of several cricket clubs. I am aware of several who were later selected for county teams in their respective age groups. There were children from various ethnic backgrounds involved.

It is a totally erroneous idea that both cricket (and rugby for that matter) is only available for children at independent schools.

Bignanny2

I’m not racist (have several races in our family and one of my daughters best friends at college is a Sikh) and I don’t like racism so this is not a racist comment it’s a factual one. I lived in a big multi cultural city and I can tell you now that in my experience the most racist people are the Muslims! Here’s just one example - walking home from work one evening - it was dark but only about 7pm and a full grown man, not a youth said to me ‘get back to your own area white girl’. I pointed out that this WAS my area as my Mum,Dad and myself were all born within a 10 minute walk of that area! Id like to ask Will there be an enquiry lasting half a day into Rafiq’s racist tweets I wonder?! No of course not because it was anti Semitic and that gets brushed under the carpet! And as for Aveline’s earlier comment about the rape of young girls by Muslim men and Worriedwell’s following comment about there being no connection:- well there is because the girls allegations were not investigated because the perpetrators were Muslim and the police didn’t want to appear racist. Just as Rafiq’s antisamitic comments won’t be throughly looked into. Yet the police stop search and harass black men all the time without worrying if they appear to be racist.

When sharing one particular house in Nottingham while at university, dd1 and her female co-sharers were regularly verbally abused by young boys of only about 9 or 10 who lived across the street.
‘Dirty white whore!’ was typical.
I had better not state the national origin or religion of the parents, for fear of being deemed racist.

Think it stems from colonial days. Cricket was 'thee' sport in colonial Asia. Doesn't need a lot of imagination to figure why racism exists in cricket. Hasn't Rafiq himself now become embroiled in his admission of antisemitic remarks.
He is apparently reasoning this being due to his age at the time ie 19 years old!

There are different levels of racism ?

Two things came to mind. One was that the cricketer commented on a racist incident that happened to him when he was a teenager and long before he played for Yorkshire, so really is irrelevant to his complaint against Yorkshire. The second was because this was not in a court the players accused had no right of reply or defence. Then it came to light that Rafiq himself has made anti semitic remark. (Apparently though it is ok because he apologised?).

I work with a man who is Pakistani. Most of the time he is lovely and great company, until he mentions anyone Jewish and then his racism is horrific to hear. If I spoke about my colleague in the same tone, I would be fired immediately.

When we lived in Glasgow, DH (Welsh-sounding name but English accent, having been brought up in London) was noticeably treated more resentfully and aggressively than I was (neutral sounding name but obvious Welsh accent).
We were used to “banter” at international sports matches, well meant gibes against other teams due to inter-country rivalry, and gave as good we got (some of it being not so much near as on the knuckle after beer had been taken). This was not the same and felt nastily meant. There is a difference. And not always due to colour.

nanna8

When we go to France I make very sure they know I am Australian and not British. Very obvious difference in the way you are treated. That’s racism.

No, racism is the Australians who stepped over an opera singer who had a stroke at a bus stop and left her there for 5 hours, because obviously as an aborigine she must have been drunk.

Thanks, Avalon, I expressed myself badly. Certainly women's team sports are cliquey, as are many other all-women organisations. I meant that we don't seem to hear of racism in women's sports and I don't know whether this shows that women tend to be less racist than men or that ill-named 'locker-room banter' doesn't necessarily indicate racist attitudes in ordinary life.

When i went back to college back in the late 90's- early 2000's as a mature student (still only in my early to mid 30's) one of our group was a youngish asian guy (whom we all got along ok with, i hasten to add) and his family were from Pakistan- but he often referred to his uncle having a Pa**i shop, and spoke of others he was complaining about as "them Pa***ies" as though that was ok for him to do so.?

Women’s team sports are also competitive and can be very cliquey with it difficult for new players to break in. Also in women’s football for example you used to get remarks referring to gay women as dy* although I’ve not heard it so much lately. So it’s not just restricted to male teams. I suspect it’s more rife in professional teams.

Lincslass Absolutely not ok but it is being brushed under the carpet. He is no different from the people he is accusing of being racist.

When we go to France I make very sure they know I am Australian and not British. Very obvious difference in the way you are treated. That’s racism.

It seems to me that it's endemic in any sport involving all-male teams, which is most physical team sports. Sexism is rife in the same way. Sport engenders competition which encourages male cliquiness, ganging up and locker room talk.

This makes it very difficult to correct.

So far as I know this doesn't happen in women's team sports.

I used to go help a friend set up the cricket teas that they lay on for after the games (all over yorkshire) and i never saw nor heard any of this racism- and she actually worked for and supported an all asian team.They played against all white or mixed race teams or all asian teams too and no racism was evident- it was just all lads playing cricket- but that was back in the 80s& 90s so maybe things have changed now? And not for the better though it seems.

It isn't OK to make derogatory remarks about Jewish people but Rafiq's tweets weren't the equivalent of what he has complained about.

He wasn't talking in a derogatory way to someone who was Jewish. He didn't pin them down and force bacon down their throat. He didn't tell them to go and sit by the toilets.

It wasn't a good thing for him to do but to try and make them equivalent is a stretch.

There was a white gang doing similar things to young girls where I live. It didn't even make the national papers when it eventually came out. When a woman I know complained about what was happening to her foster daughter at the hands of these men a social worker told her there was nothing she could do. So no I don't think it is anything to do with racism in cricket.

Remember when people in the crowd dressed up as Monty Panesar?

It was meant to be an affectionate tribute from his fans.

Was it racist?

I’m asking seriously, not goading, He seemed to be on board with it. I’d like to hear what he thinks now.

I’m not racist (have several races in our family and one of my daughters best friends at college is a Sikh) and I don’t like racism so this is not a racist comment it’s a factual one. I lived in a big multi cultural city and I can tell you now that in my experience the most racist people are the Muslims! Here’s just one example - walking home from work one evening - it was dark but only about 7pm and a full grown man, not a youth said to me ‘get back to your own area white girl’. I pointed out that this WAS my area as my Mum,Dad and myself were all born within a 10 minute walk of that area! Id like to ask Will there be an enquiry lasting half a day into Rafiq’s racist tweets I wonder?! No of course not because it was anti Semitic and that gets brushed under the carpet! And as for Aveline’s earlier comment about the rape of young girls by Muslim men and Worriedwell’s following comment about there being no connection:- well there is because the girls allegations were not investigated because the perpetrators were Muslim and the police didn’t want to appear racist. Just as Rafiq’s antisamitic comments won’t be throughly looked into. Yet the police stop search and harass black men all the time without worrying if they appear to be racist.

I’m a bit behind with the posting, I see.

But I couldn’t let that comment go.

wellbeck having spend most of my career in education in inner city schools (mostly London but others as well) I can assure you that cricket is very much played in those schools, with inter school tournaments.

I don’t know where you got the idea that it wasn’t.