Does anyone feel that this is getting just a little bit unreasonable?

Of course not. They're the ones in the dominant social position.

GagaJo

Calistemon

No, whoever is best for the part!

We're not back in Shakespearean times.

If we follow that rule, it will be white hetero men all the way. It's why we have feminism and BLM.

Are you saying that white, heterosexual men are better actors than anyone else?

I don't think that's true.

Calistemon

No, whoever is best for the part!

We're not back in Shakespearean times.

If we follow that rule, it will be white hetero men all the way. It's why we have feminism and BLM.

Doodledog

It's another one of those spurious claims (like the one that 98% of transpeople live quietly, or whatever it was) that can never be backed up by data, as there (rightly) is no list of lesbians, so no way of knowing what percentage do anything.

In that case, there is no list of trans people, so all the trans fear being whipped up is also a spurious movement.

It's one or the other Doodledog. Schrodinger's trans. The end of women as we know them and also not there at all.

No, whoever is best for the part!

We're not back in Shakespearean times.

Calistemon

GagaJo

That is rot MOnica. Unfortunately, we do not live in an equal world. Heterosexual white men are dominant.

There is nothing wrong with trying to equal things up.

I'm honestly shocked at the adherence to the white dominant patriarchy on here. The Tories will be rubbing their hands in glee at the factionalism evident in the UK now. Stops everyone pointing the finger at the place the inequality stems from.

It's only acting!!

So we're sticking with white heterosexual men dominating then? facepalm

It's another one of those spurious claims (like the one that 98% of transpeople live quietly, or whatever it was) that can never be backed up by data, as there (rightly) is no list of lesbians, so no way of knowing what percentage do anything.

GagaJo

*seems to be predominantly men presenting as women and doing it in permanence*

This is very incorrect. There is focus in the lesbian community these days (and has been ongoing for the last 10 years or so) about a large % of butch lesbians transitioning to men. I was reading an article about it in Diva magazine (I think it was Diva, memory) this week.

This appears to be fictitious, both in its assertion and it’s supposed source.

If accredited research can be produced to justify the assertion that lesbians are now focussing on transition I will apologise.

GagaJo

That is rot MOnica. Unfortunately, we do not live in an equal world. Heterosexual white men are dominant.

There is nothing wrong with trying to equal things up.

I'm honestly shocked at the adherence to the white dominant patriarchy on here. The Tories will be rubbing their hands in glee at the factionalism evident in the UK now. Stops everyone pointing the finger at the place the inequality stems from.

It's only acting!!

GagaJo

It's about trying to stamp out discrimination. Just like #OscarsSoWhite.

There are lots of other categories.

Sex/gender
Sexuality
Nationality
Ableism
White washing

As much as we wish we did, we don't live in an equal world. BLM, trans issues. Both are very much part of the zeigeist now. I think it's great he's thought of it. Show's he is a sensitive man. He can look back at something he did, say 'I was wrong.' I think that shows strength of character.

Yep so sensitive he's now going to play Emcee in Cabaret which has oft been played by a gay man, and he's back to defending himself like he did about Lili Elbe until he saw the light. As an actor I like him, his pronouncements I find hollow.

It might not have been Diva magazine. BUT I googled it and found these at the top of the link list.

www.them.us/story/butch-please

inmagazine.ca/2020/01/opinion-where-are-all-the-butches/

www.pride.com/women/2015/7/15/where-have-all-butches-gone

Interesting topic. I always thought female masculinity was a great concept.

GagaJo

Oh here we go. Back to insults rather than making points. Same old, same old.

Excuse me? Who brought in our 'adherence to the white dominant patriarchy? Do you expect people to just meekly suck up that sort of insult?

On the contrary, I was coming out for equality, where all actors can play all parts.

In school plays I almost always played male parts, Tybalt, Mr Collins, Various shepherds and Kings. In fact at university I played Donald Eccles in NF Simpson's Resounding Tinkle. Donald Eccles changes his sex and the line that greeted me as I came on stage was 'Why Don, you have changed your sex.' I had quite forgotten that until i wrote this post.

What is a large percentage in this context, and a percentage of what? (ie of all lesbians, all butch lesbians, or what?). And from which list of lesbians has this 'large percentage' been derived?

Oh here we go. Back to insults rather than making points. Same old, same old.

It seems to be the trans ( activist) way Doodledog....
Their way or the highway.

And no retraction of the slight to Ben Kingsley, he of mixed race British/Indian heritage who 'shouldn't' have played Ghandi.

^Today 19:24 GagaJo
I get that most on this thread aren't interested in equality. Some are though. Including ER obviously.^
Condescending and “holier than thou”
GagGaJo

Oh, here we go. Disagree about actors, and we are adhering to the white dominant patriarchy?.

Oh, and we are 'right wing' to boot!

seems to be predominantly men presenting as women and doing it in permanence

This is very incorrect. There is focus in the lesbian community these days (and has been ongoing for the last 10 years or so) about a large % of butch lesbians transitioning to men. I was reading an article about it in Diva magazine (I think it was Diva, memory) this week.

I thought it was acting, isn’t that what it is. Will they soon be wanting people who only have experience of
role they are playing.

That is rot MOnica. Unfortunately, we do not live in an equal world. Heterosexual white men are dominant.

There is nothing wrong with trying to equal things up.

I'm honestly shocked at the adherence to the white dominant patriarchy on here. The Tories will be rubbing their hands in glee at the factionalism evident in the UK now. Stops everyone pointing the finger at the place the inequality stems from.

Sorry, I was being facetious ?

Cross dressing is something entirely different and is only ever done for a short time until it is safe for the woman to become herself again. Trans is something very different and seems to be predominantly men presenting as women and doing it in permanence.

Plenty of women presenting as men in Shakespeare?