Second home owners in Wales face soaring council tax bills after Labour-Plaid deal.

It's not just about prices, though. It's about the fact that many houses in some villages (whatever their market value) being used by people who don't use the facilities all year round, and don't use the 'everyday' ones used by residents, as opposed to holiday makers) anyway. Local shops, Post Offices, buses, schools - even social groups can struggle when there aren't enough 'regulars' to keep them going. When they disappear, it's a vicious circle, as people who rely on them have to move out, and sell up to more Air B&B or holiday letters.

It’s not just in lovely rural or seaside areas, though, is it? For quite a while a lot of young people in London have been priced out of homes in areas that would formerly have been considered nothing very special (I’m not talking Mayfair here) which their parents could afford at the same sort of ages. It’s partly because of the general huge rise in prices relative to incomes, and partly because of incomers, including many very wealthy foreigners.

Increasing taxes on second homes will presumably discourage people from investing in a second home.
I am not so sure about this. It will be peanuts to many.

Exactly this Dinahmo. We bought a 13 bedroom farmhouse (longère) from Brits in Brittany that no French person wanted. Sold it to Brits too. All three of us owners had additional property too. While the local French sat happily, and less expensively, in their new builds and villas. They were bemused at us.

People are either forgetting, or not realising that many of the old houses in Wales were left empty because their owners moved to new bungalows- warm and easy to look after.

I remember in the 60s and 70s on our many visits to Wales fantasising over do-upables but there was no way in which we could have afforded to do the work or to develop a career.
The same thing has happened in rural France. The countryside is littered with old barns and farmhouses that can still be bought for a reasonable price which would cost a fortune to do up unless one had the required skills. On the outskirts of most villages there are villas built in the 60s and 70s that the local residents moved into.

Surely, there is more than one problem here?

People buy or have bought in the past a property as a holiday home in an area where for various reasons there were more properties for sale than buyers who wanted to live there all the year round.

This situation came about for many reasons - the lack of work in country districts is one cause, lack of good secondary schooling, local hospitals etc. etc.

Young people who have finished school move away to study and don't move back "home" again, as they either cannot get work there, or simply prefer city living.

Unless businesses move to the country districts that have little or no work to offer, obviously either the countryside will be left to the increasingly few who either work the land or fish, the retired and those who can work from home and who do not have school-aged children.

Increasing taxes on second homes will presumably discourage people from investing in a second home, but it is highly unlikely to solve the other problems.

In Denmark the problem is being addressed by listing a number of properties as permanent dwellings - if you buy one, you are obliged to live in the house for at least six months of the year and by government offices moving out of Copenhage to small towns all over the country.

Country municipalities that fear that their demographic is increasingly the retired, the elderly and the old, have started various schemes to attract young families, such as guaranting that if a couple move to the district because the one has found a job, their spouse will be helped to find a job too, or paid to look after the children at home instead of sending them to a kindergarten or day-care.

Whether these schemes will work in the long run or not, is a moot point, but it is abundantly necessary to try and make the countryside attractive as a permanent dwelling place and not just as the site of holiday homes.

Josianne

It is interesting all these names... holiday home, second home, bolt hole, summer residence etc.
When we lived in London our house in Devon was viewed more as our "family home" because we were all five of us there together. Our London home was more of our 'work base" where we passed each other on the landing but didn't operate as a team. I wonder whether, with people working from home now, homes in a different more desirable locations will become even more popular for people to have that quality time?

Prices are going up because people that can work from home are moving out of London. It's also happening here in France - people moving out from Paris & Bordeaux etc to rural areas and the prices are increasing.

I was born in Wales (as were all my family), grew up there and kept the small house my parents left me. Although I no longer live there full time, I return frequently as do my family and close friends. I make no huge profit from keeping a modest, non-coastal property (in a town) that is enjoyed for far more than half the year. Close friends pay us £100 per week at any time of year to help with bills - they frequently suggest they should pay us more!
Together with the people who stay there, we support local businesses and tradespeople. We all eat out far more than ever we do at home! Our plumber there told me he thinks it's outrageous that we have to pay any more council tax at all!
If we lived there all the time, we would look after our garden ourselves. We employ someone to do that - one job he has because it is a second home. He tells me that far more than 50% of his work is in second homes. We buy local food there to bring home and gifts that can't be found elsewhere. We have excellent relationships with our neighbours, many of whom knew my parents. I never feel like an unwelcome invader ...... and then I read Gransnet!

I have 'swallowed' the initial increase in council tax whilst considering it to be unfair for services I use less than I would use if it was my first home. Most large-scale holiday property owners and developers will be registered as businesses so pay no council tax. I could do that but feel it's ethically incorrect. Is the increase of council tax actually getting at the right people? Business tax goes to the government not the local council who say it will be used to build affordable homes so the local councils won't even touch the big players and the super-wealthy.

Much of Wales relies on tourism. In some parts, without visitors, there would be massive unemployment.
I am genuinely sympathetic to the housing market on the coast being inflated price-wise by seriously-rich people who can afford to cherry-pick properties. I could not afford to live on the coast in most places either, even as a first home! Affordable housing is a problem UK-wide though, with property developers buying up cheaper houses, developing them and selling them on at far less affordable prices. What some regions of Wales suffer from is 'ghost villages' in the winter .... but as do Devon, Cornwall and other areas of England.

I choose to use the money I earn to keep this small property in Wales – my much-loved homeland. I could have a larger property as my first home, could drive an extravagantly expensive car, could live an extravagant lifestyle, employ a cleaner, a gardener etc etc etc This is my choice. In the town where this house is there are many homes for sale that you could describe as starter homes. I am not ‘ripping the heart out of any community’.

My Mum, in her later years, used to say to me, "I have nothing to leave you apart from this house." and I will keep it even if it is a struggle (yes, it could become one) because I love Wales with a passion and feel as though I'm 'coming home' when I stay there. My job does not exist in Wales so I can't choose to live there permanently. I can just treasure and protect what I can. What is ‘immoral” in that?

Great news second home owners are killing villages all over the Welsh coast and the fishing towns in Devon and Cornwall

It is interesting all these names... holiday home, second home, bolt hole, summer residence etc.
When we lived in London our house in Devon was viewed more as our "family home" because we were all five of us there together. Our London home was more of our 'work base" where we passed each other on the landing but didn't operate as a team. I wonder whether, with people working from home now, homes in a different more desirable locations will become even more popular for people to have that quality time?

Our house in a very unloved village in the East Mids has gone up more that the average for the county - definitely not 2nd home owners - but other, prettier, nearby villages have reached their optimum price and people want to live in this area.

At least I believe we are the only 'holiday' home owners where we have our UK flat and certainly the only ones who come from where we live currently.

I live in a small moorland village in the south west and work close by. I fully understand why people want a holiday home here if they live in a busy city. Second home ownership has shot up in the last 2 years. Many of these new owners will barely visit, and when they do, they bring all their groceries with them. Those that let their property as a holiday home do at least offer some benefit to the community in terms of the local shops and restaurants. If they do this then they can claim Small Business Rates Relief and then pay nothing in Business Rates or Council Tax so that the local council loses a little more income - to the detriment of the local residents. Hospitality has suffered this summer from lack of staff because the staff have no where to live. So many that are left have been given to notice to leave their rental properties as their landlords have either sold up or moved into more lucrative holiday letting.

Paperbackwriter

Shinamae

It’s the same here in the Southwest. Locals absolutely priced out of buying a property… my son being one of them

It's a bit of an old canard, that thing about people not being able to afford to buy in their own communities. Here in the borough of Richmond upon Thames, it costs about 3 times as much to buy a tiny cottage as it does in most of Cornwall or Devon. Is this perceived entitlement to stay in the local community something that only applies to rural areas? No way could my daughters afford to move back up here from where they live in Cornwall.

My OH grew up in the Surrey Gold Belt- after a few years in SW London, we moved up to the West Midlands for a 3 year contract- when we bought our first 2.5 bed semi and had DD1. We realised as the job came to an end, that there was NO way we could even afford a small flat in London or Surrey, and moved on to the East Midlands, where our quality of life would be so much better and we could afford a slightly bigger house, and then a lovely family home.

Vito you are so right. Many people can't afford a first home. Places standing empty for most of the time kill villages and towns. It should be stopped. The Channel Islands don't allow it as far as I understand. I live in the westcountry and some of the second homes are huge. It's a disgrace. This issue needs to be addressed immediately.

As a long term resident of a village in North Cornwall,which has its share of second homes I can assure GN readers that our shop keepers do a very nice and convenient to all year round trade .Mine in particular even opening on xmas day..
Having read one comment could have us believing that our village shops shut down when second homers happen to be away for a few days.Nothing could be further from the truth as village shops seem to be open all hours and of benefit to us all.Local or otherwise.

Tradespeople such as bricklayers, plumbers, etc., will get work on all the housing in the area whether locally owned or not.
Very few second home owners bring tradespeople with them from the city.

I understand that Air b&b's pay no council tax. Where I live ( Kent coast), this is a real hot topic. It's not just pricing out buyers, it's taking affordable rentals out if the housing stock, and puts less money into local services such as waste collection, street lighting , and libraries.

Holiday homes do very little for most communities. I am from Cornwall and have many relatives there so visit often. My niece is a nurse and a single mum. She has been renting for almost ten years and is only now (perhaps) able to afford to buy, as she now has a fiancé. Air bn’bs and second homes push the prices up to unaffordable levels. The environmental impact is enormous; hospitals and local services cannot cope. People visiting their holiday homes often use Amazon et al for groceries etc so local shops don’t get much of a look in. Restaurant and pub prices are artificially pushed up for everybody the whole year. Young people leave the area (as I did) so families who could provide support for each other as needed are far apart and social cohesion is badly affected. There is so much more to this question than just a few lucky people deserving a nice bolt hole for themselves when they feel like it! Whole communities are disrupted and affected forever and there is no turning back the clock seemingly.

So when granny dies and leaves a £500,000 cottage in a lovely Cornish cove, the family should keep it and pass it down to younger generations? Some hope. Big money for property is very alluring for inheritors. Look to the sellers as well as the buyers.

Chewbacca

^Let’s be honest, do the younger generation actually want to stay in small villages these days^ when the world is getting so much smaller and opportunities elsewhere so much greater.

Erm.... yes, they do. That's why they're protesting about not being able to afford to live near to their families are and where they work.

Many youngsters do choose to stay where they are from, keeping youth and ideas locally, good for them, not everything is grass greener on the other side. My DGS is one of these, and should be able to afford a small starter home. Others aren’t so lucky.

When you live in a village and actually know the younger people who cannot afford to live where they grew up it does hit home more than if you view this problem as a debating issue.

I am watching the finish of the place I have lived in for over 20 years.
The 2 biggest and most attractive properties in the village were sold approv 18 years ago and are now only occupied for a few weeks a year, if that.
One of them has a full size "granny cottage" in the back garden.
So that is 3 homes not used.
We have lost Post Office, Library, grocer shop, butchers etc all in the last 20 years.
Tourists arrive and buy from online deliveries.

The roads are so crowded in summer that most locals actually give up attempting to go out unless essential. Also same for the beaches.

The tourists would be ok in less numbers. There are caravan sites and motorhome sites they can use.
Or have a small allowed percentage of homes for holidays.
Our bus service shrinks every year and is non existent in winter weekends and all evening....so not any use to locals.
Prices of everything are priced too high because the business people want to take advantage of the holdiday makers and locals just have to suck it up.

I have noticed that many of the shops and businesses are owned and run by incomers. So again not really helping the locals.
We also lack any bargain stores. Cos its not what tourists want.

It almost feels like living in a theme park. Holiday makers staring in windows but there isn't anything to see here!

Brick layers, plasterers, carpenters cannot work from home

I was at a Welsh University during the 70s when some second homes were set alight in protest re a lot of the reasons already mentioned. However, the situation is more complex. Work needs to be available in the area in the first place and then hopefully these homes will be made available for locals who want to remain or others who come into the area to work. Kali maybe you could speak to your local council and offer your second home on a temporary basis to refugees?

Let’s be honest, do the younger generation actually want to stay in small villages these days when the world is getting so much smaller and opportunities elsewhere so much greater.

Erm.... yes, they do. That's why they're protesting about not being able to afford to live near to their families are and where they work.