Stand off drowning migrants and report – or face prosecution, sailors warned

The BBC are saying that Priti Patel is to speak with her French counterpart today to discuss the response to the tragedy.

This could be the start of an answer.

Arguing on here is doing nothing positive. We could be part of the answer. I don't see anyone on Gransnet saying it is a good thing to let people drown. Even those with the most hard line stance on immigration would surely be the first to run to help a person who has fallen over in the street....and now is our chance to run to help these our fellow man in France. To resolve this terrible problem do we not just need to put our feelings about France, the EU and whatever aside?

Perhaps something we could all do today is write to Mrs Patel, the PM and our MPs and express how heartbroken we all are that in 2021 men, women and children are dying in our seas and that our fishermen and the RNLI are having to pull corpses from the water. For the sake of humanity we would like the government to work with all partners necessary to resolve this solvable problem. To sit quietly, with their hands in their laps, listen hard and then come up with a workable agreement.

Pantglas2

It always makes me smile when the people who want to let all migrants into England also applaud Wales Labour FM for wanting to halt the English coming to Wales and buying retirement/holiday homes....comical, no?

Oh dear

Ridiculous comment pantglas. No correlation whatsoever.

There's nothing to smile about in this Pantglas2, nothing at all. Nothing comical whatsoever.

Especially when you are making spurious and ridiculous politically motivated comments.

It always makes me smile when the people who want to let all migrants into England also applaud Wales Labour FM for wanting to halt the English coming to Wales and buying retirement/holiday homes....comical, no?

Alegrias1

^As per usual on the Political threads, it all ends up with how wonderful the EU is and how dreadful the U.K. is now it is no longer a member.^

Because sometimes it's true.

Who? Where?

lemongrove

How many did we send back to France when we were in the EU?

That is NOT the point- fewer arrived because our EU partners stopped them, and often in quite violent and cruel ways- camps bulldozed and set on fire, people beaten up, and worse.
I suggest you have never been to Calais and seen the rows after rows of razor wire near the ferry ports and Tunnel- and the constant presence of CRS in large numbers. Those guys are scary!

The title in the Independent 'We are now paying the price of political posturing'

both in the UK, and with the EU. It started with Brexit, and Johnson/Patel.

As per usual on the Political threads, it all ends up with how wonderful the EU is and how dreadful the U.K. is now it is no longer a member.

Because sometimes it's true.

lemongrove

How many did we send back to France when we were in the EU?

Different rules applied then surely you know that as you voted for Brexit?

There were less asylum seekers coming to the U.K. as the EUs rules say that those seeking asylum in the EU should do so in the first EU country you enter.

lemongrove

How many did we send back to France when we were in the EU?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/17/uk-minister-admits-big-fall-in-returns-of-boat-arrivals-since-brexit

The whole point of brexit was supposedly to take back control and reduce immigration. So if brexit is such a great idea why are more people entering the country illegally? It can’t be blamed on covid can it. So the main reason for brexit obviously isn’t working. And before anyone says brexit wasn’t about immigration someone said on one of the political programmes that it was (can’t remember who it was or which programme I’m afraid).

How many did we send back to France when we were in the EU?

Alegrias1

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1

GrannyGravy13

Kali2

It was the whole point of the EU, work, cooperate, with our partners, be stronger, be more efficient, and so much more.

It has happened- but you have to come to accept the consequences of losing the cooperation of our ex-partners in 100s of ways- including this one.

There is not much co-operation within the EU regarding Polands border with Belarus?

Have you seen the poor souls, many families with young children stuck in no man’s land between the barbed wire fences. The snow will be arriving there anyway now, how many of those will perish?

So what are we saying now?

The Poles are really bad and not playing by the rules so we're not that bad really?

Jeez Alegrias1 you are so very good at putting words into other posters posts

Kali2 posted that the migrant troubles were due to us no longer being a member of the EU, I just pointed out that a member state i.e. Poland was also having migrant problems.

This is nothing to do with being a member of the EU, it is purely desperate folks, seeking safety in a Country of their choosing.

(We have a close friend that has housed many young migrant men, and their harrowing tales would break even the most hardened heart)

So what was the point of bringing Poland into this? The issues in Poland are entirely different to ours here.

If it's not to say that worse things are happening elsewhere, was it to try to make Kali look as though she was wrong for praising the EU?

And the reason we can't send people back to France so easily is because we are no longer in the EU.

Why would we send these folks back to France?

If their asylum claim fails they should be repatriated to their Country of birth.

As per usual on the Political threads, it all ends up with how wonderful the EU is and how dreadful the U.K. is now it is no longer a member. Predictable and not helpful.

I have yet to see anyone come up with a credible solution to these desperate peoples plight.

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1

GrannyGravy13

Kali2

It was the whole point of the EU, work, cooperate, with our partners, be stronger, be more efficient, and so much more.

It has happened- but you have to come to accept the consequences of losing the cooperation of our ex-partners in 100s of ways- including this one.

There is not much co-operation within the EU regarding Polands border with Belarus?

Have you seen the poor souls, many families with young children stuck in no man’s land between the barbed wire fences. The snow will be arriving there anyway now, how many of those will perish?

So what are we saying now?

The Poles are really bad and not playing by the rules so we're not that bad really?

Jeez Alegrias1 you are so very good at putting words into other posters posts

Kali2 posted that the migrant troubles were due to us no longer being a member of the EU, I just pointed out that a member state i.e. Poland was also having migrant problems.

This is nothing to do with being a member of the EU, it is purely desperate folks, seeking safety in a Country of their choosing.

(We have a close friend that has housed many young migrant men, and their harrowing tales would break even the most hardened heart)

So what was the point of bringing Poland into this? The issues in Poland are entirely different to ours here.

If it's not to say that worse things are happening elsewhere, was it to try to make Kali look as though she was wrong for praising the EU?

And the reason we can't send people back to France so easily is because we are no longer in the EU.

Kali, are you proud that amongst all the reasons your young friend cites for the UK being able to take in vast numbers of migrants, one of them is the number of our people who have died, and continue to die, from Covid?

lemongrove

kali you are getting Brexit into almost all your comments.
It has nothing to do with the migrant crisis.... Channel crossings.
The camps around Calais ( for instance) were allowed to build up to huge sizes ( much more than now) years and years ago, well before we left the EU.
If posters could, for a moment, leave aside their dislike of Brexit or the current government, or of fellow GNers comments ( no personal slurs )and just focus on the actual subject, that would be a good start.

Because it is very relevant- and because many of us and experts, warned that Brexit, and the loss of cooperation with our ex partners, would make this much worse. I can't be bothered to go back and fish out comments to this effect- but I can assure you warnings were clear. And I also remember that many of you called it just another Project Fear and scare mongering.

lemongrove

Whitewavemark2

Our government could act like adults and lead the way. But they won’t because they aren’t.

What is your solution?
Could Macron ‘lead the way’ also, since the migrants are leaving on this perilous journey from his country.

My solution?

Well it would be a start by recognising and accepting that there will be huge amounts displaced people seeking refuge for years to come as a result of our foreign policies, climate change etc.

This problem is not going away and very likely to get worse. One if those who drowned was an interpreter for the British who fled Afghanistan because we failed to rescue him and his family.

One example accepting that this will be an ongoing problem, then the world must be divided into chunks e.g. Europe. Europe should than set up a ministry that deals with the European wide problem, in a fair and equitable way. It has to be done we can’t continue with this carnage.

Alegrias1

GrannyGravy13

Kali2

It was the whole point of the EU, work, cooperate, with our partners, be stronger, be more efficient, and so much more.

It has happened- but you have to come to accept the consequences of losing the cooperation of our ex-partners in 100s of ways- including this one.

There is not much co-operation within the EU regarding Polands border with Belarus?

Have you seen the poor souls, many families with young children stuck in no man’s land between the barbed wire fences. The snow will be arriving there anyway now, how many of those will perish?

So what are we saying now?

The Poles are really bad and not playing by the rules so we're not that bad really?

Jeez Alegrias1 you are so very good at putting words into other posters posts

Kali2 posted that the migrant troubles were due to us no longer being a member of the EU, I just pointed out that a member state i.e. Poland was also having migrant problems.

This is nothing to do with being a member of the EU, it is purely desperate folks, seeking safety in a Country of their choosing.

(We have a close friend that has housed many young migrant men, and their harrowing tales would break even the most hardened heart)

Germanshepherdsmum

mokryna said earlier on this thread that refugees are offered asylum in France but refuse because they want to come to the UK. Do all those refusing what is offered in France (or any other EU country) have family who are legally settled in the UK? Are they all English speakers? Given the huge numbers involved I very much doubt it. Do we have a more favourable benefits system than other EU countries in which they could have sought asylum? My priority is the countless people born here who subsist on or below the breadline, who have to decide between heating and eating, who live in appalling conditions and even on the streets, who cannot get the medical treatment they desperately need because the NHS is on its knees. And no, I didn’t vote for Brexit before anyone lobs that at me.

Good sensible comments????

Brexiter wasn't the adjective I was thinking of using GSM.

It's easy to say, that because geographically refugees arrive on the other side of Europe, be it in Sicily, or Poland... that they should never be able to get to the far away, across the water UK - 'not our problem'.

We have looked in detail many times why they want to come to the UK and not always remain in other parts of EU.

kali you are getting Brexit into almost all your comments.
It has nothing to do with the migrant crisis.... Channel crossings.
The camps around Calais ( for instance) were allowed to build up to huge sizes ( much more than now) years and years ago, well before we left the EU.
If posters could, for a moment, leave aside their dislike of Brexit or the current government, or of fellow GNers comments ( no personal slurs )and just focus on the actual subject, that would be a good start.

mokryna said earlier on this thread that refugees are offered asylum in France but refuse because they want to come to the UK. Do all those refusing what is offered in France (or any other EU country) have family who are legally settled in the UK? Are they all English speakers? Given the huge numbers involved I very much doubt it. Do we have a more favourable benefits system than other EU countries in which they could have sought asylum? My priority is the countless people born here who subsist on or below the breadline, who have to decide between heating and eating, who live in appalling conditions and even on the streets, who cannot get the medical treatment they desperately need because the NHS is on its knees. And no, I didn’t vote for Brexit before anyone lobs that at me.

Yes, and 'those poor people' we feel so sorry for are a long way away - so we can feel sorry for them, from a distance ... but those near us, not so much !!!

Here is what a young friend of mine wrote today:

''There are 84 million displaced people in the world, due to climate change, war, famine and persecution. 35 million are children. (UNHCR)
25 thousand people is roughly two average size housing estates, across a country of 67 million people, (the U.K.), of which only 5% is built on.
The U.K. lost 144 thousand people to Covid this year and last, and is continuing to lose them at the rate of about 1,000 per week.
A million or more EU citizens have left the U.K. since 2019, and we continue to haemorrhage both EU and U.K. citizens due to Brexit.
The U.K. is not ‘full up’.
Most refugees statistically want to find work as soon as the host country allows and many have skills useful to the host country. The U.K. has public services and businesses crying out for workers right now. (Assuming people are not worth saving without economic value, as that seems to be the attitude we have now).
The U.K. is currently the 6th richest country in the world. It is not help ‘them’ or help ‘our own’. It is ‘help both’ vs stuff rich people’s pockets with more money than they can ever spend while we help neither.
There are 13 countries in Europe who give refuge to more people than the U.K. - often many more. The U.K. is nowhere near the top - or even the middle - worldwide. The top ten countries taking in millions of refugees are all economically poor. We are not doing anything like our ‘fair share’.
This U.K. government removed/cut aid to many countries affected by war and climate change, sells arms which cause others to be bombed or forced to flee, pulled out of Afghanistan leaving people at the mercy of the Taliban (edited highlights, much more too).
People may claim asylum in any country. This has been an internationally recognised right since the 1951 refugee convention which the U.K. signed. Being an asylum seeker or a refugee is not an illegal act.
The Dublin agreement exists within EU countries for asylum claims to be processed in the first EU county someone came to. The U.K. chose to leave that arrangement.
France cannot legally prevent anyone leaving France - leaving France isn’t a criminal act (pretty obvious that one when you have a think about it).
The U.K. government closed off all safe routes for asylum applications.
This U.K. government made it potentially illegal to save people from drowning.
Please read the last one again. These are people. They could be you, they could be me. All it takes is living in the wrong place at the wrong time. Imagine being desperate for help and reaching out to other human beings, and no one will help you.''

I am so proud of this ex student of mine, and support the above 100%.