Stand off drowning migrants and report – or face prosecution, sailors warned

Germanshepherdsmum

Kali I will say again that you are using Brexit as an excuse. You seem obsessed with it. Some days you identify as a member of the UK, others you identify with the EU. The consequences of Brexit upon the way in which migrants are dealt with are known to us all on here. Stop using the ‘little England’ mentality shown by some to justify Brexit to bash people on this thread who have shown no signs of being infected with it and who have expressed horror at recent events.

Exactly. Excellent post.

Kali I will say again that you are using Brexit as an excuse. You seem obsessed with it. Some days you identify as a member of the UK, others you identify with the EU. The consequences of Brexit upon the way in which migrants are dealt with are known to us all on here. Stop using the ‘little England’ mentality shown by some to justify Brexit to bash people on this thread who have shown no signs of being infected with it and who have expressed horror at recent events.

A news reporter quoted a figure of a quarter of a million pounds per boatload Urms so yes, an extremely lucrative business indeed.

I do wish though that these tv news reporters would ask more searching questions of the migrants.
One family from I think, Iraq, when asked why they were so determined to get to the UK , when they were already safe in France said that it’s better for families than France.
I did wonder why the reporter didn’t ask the woman more searching questions to find out what gave her that impression.

It’s probably well known to these migrants that even if they fail to be granted asylum they have a virtually zero risk of being deported once here.

So you think I'm wrong?

growstuff

Lincslass

Dickens

Lincslass

Believe extra drones , and other navigational aids to help catch these smugglers, have been offered by the UK, one ex Navy chief was saying. All help been turned down by the French.

Given the anti-French rhetoric emanating from this government, it's hardly surprising our offer has been turned down.

... and France is as precious about its sovereignty as we are.

Also, certain laws and regulations would have to be put in place to govern the behaviour of our military / police on foreign soil. We are now a third country, no longer a partner.

Put the boot on the other foot - how willing would Britain be to allow the French to patrol our borders do you think?

I was only repeating what had been said. All the bad rhetoric has not been onesided either, the French blaming us because we don’t have ID , oh and a job market that is thriving, and I’m sure they have as much a thriving black market as we do.We also must remember these migrants are actually on French soil, not the UK. So in France their problem, non?
We have been requested to help on the Ukraine border, who may have an escalation with Russia, and we have gone to help. So make of this problem what you will, France in no way will seek a joint arrangement with us. So no need to be snarky with me. Yes if it was a dire problem, which this is, then yes I think we would accept help, under our jurisdiction, as Patel has offered with France, but they won’t countenance even that. They just want to lay all the blame at our door.

This is toddler mentality. "But ... but ... but ... he's as bad as me ... it's his fault ..."

So rude aren’t you.

No she did NOT, and I have explained why.

If you deny that Brexit is a strong factor in what is happening now, then you are in true denial.

Kali, your 'young friend' has used covid deaths to justify immigration. You said you are proud of what she wrote and her 'insight' and you have also said that you agree with her, therefore these are your comments too and pretty disgraceful they are. Don't try to bring Brexit into this by way of an 'excuse' for such deplorable comments.

“Smugglers shot a scared migrant in the kneecaps after he refused to board a boat on the same night 27 people died trying to cross the English Channel.

Volunteers in the Calais jungle migrant camp rushed to the aid of a 20-year-old man who was “quickly losing a lot of blood” after a smuggler became frustrated at his refusal to board the vessel and drew a gun on him.

The smuggler felt he had “lost out on easy money,” volunteers said, as the gangs are believed to only receive the full fee for transporting migrants once they have arrived in the UK. The assailant is on the run, according to French media reports.“

This, just now in the Telegraph illustrates well what a hugely organised and lucrative business people trafficking actually is. Like drugs just a different commodity.

Perhaps it is just too easy to get across Europe with Schengen? Maybe it’s time to reintroduce borders and checks across Europe?

Whatever, law enforcement across Europe and here needs to up the game. These gangsters buying rubber inflatables in Germany & Belgium, are running rings around all of us. So much money is exchanging hands here. They won’t give up this without a fight.

lemongrove

Kali2

Not at all- her comment was factual- in direct response to the 'Britain is full' argument seen again and again.

These are your comments are they kali ‘the young friend’ ,as you have used this phrase many times with the hobby horse of Brexit.
Please do stop using the emotive issue of Covid deaths to further justify the anti Brexit comments.

I have not. What do you mean, my comments? I said they were a friend's (who happens to be young)- what right have you got to say they are 'mine'. But yes, I shared, with her permission- as I totally agree with what she said, on several occasions.

No WAY at all has she, or I, used Covid deaths to justify anti Brexit comments. Those comments were made, and I repeat, in direct response to the 'UK is full' - it is not.

Whitewavemark2

What no one is understanding or wanting to understand, is that asylum seekers are perfectly entitled to seek asylum in the country of their choosing. The police can advise them of the danger of taking a small dingy to sea, but the cannot legally stop them going to a country of their choice.

Have you told the French police this?
I think that slashing the dinghies now and again is stopping them, but it needs more manpower.Which is where we come in, except Macron would seem to be blocking any UK help.

Kali2

Not at all- her comment was factual- in direct response to the 'Britain is full' argument seen again and again.

These are your comments are they kali ‘the young friend’ ,as you have used this phrase many times with the hobby horse of Brexit.
Please do stop using the emotive issue of Covid deaths to further justify the anti Brexit comments.

Lincslass

Dickens

Lincslass

Believe extra drones , and other navigational aids to help catch these smugglers, have been offered by the UK, one ex Navy chief was saying. All help been turned down by the French.

Given the anti-French rhetoric emanating from this government, it's hardly surprising our offer has been turned down.

... and France is as precious about its sovereignty as we are.

Also, certain laws and regulations would have to be put in place to govern the behaviour of our military / police on foreign soil. We are now a third country, no longer a partner.

Put the boot on the other foot - how willing would Britain be to allow the French to patrol our borders do you think?

I was only repeating what had been said. All the bad rhetoric has not been onesided either, the French blaming us because we don’t have ID , oh and a job market that is thriving, and I’m sure they have as much a thriving black market as we do.We also must remember these migrants are actually on French soil, not the UK. So in France their problem, non?
We have been requested to help on the Ukraine border, who may have an escalation with Russia, and we have gone to help. So make of this problem what you will, France in no way will seek a joint arrangement with us. So no need to be snarky with me. Yes if it was a dire problem, which this is, then yes I think we would accept help, under our jurisdiction, as Patel has offered with France, but they won’t countenance even that. They just want to lay all the blame at our door.

This is toddler mentality. "But ... but ... but ... he's as bad as me ... it's his fault ..."

What no one is understanding or wanting to understand, is that asylum seekers are perfectly entitled to seek asylum in the country of their choosing. The police can advise them of the danger of taking a small dingy to sea, but the cannot legally stop them going to a country of their choice.

From another young friend - yes, as said before, and Raab took a long time to realise, and some on GN too- geography does matter.

''One of the most laughable things about little England mindset in this country is that anything which advantages them is always right and fair, anything which disadvantages them is wrong and outrageously unfair.
I mean, I’m sure if we were geographically positioned where Turkey, Greece or Italy are (or more so - Libya, Lebanon and Sudan), we’d still be shouting that refugees should stay in the first country they get to, right? Nah. We’d be screaming from the rooftops that other countries weren’t doing enough, why should we have to deal with everyone? But when we’re a geographical outpost then yeah, everyone should stay where they are, cos that’s fair, isn’t it. ''

Let’s find someone else to blame! France takes more asylum seekers than the U.K.- so why should France help the U.K. take even less than them? If we had migrants travelling through the U.K. to get to, say, Norway, would we stop them leaving and keep them unwillingly in the U.K.? The migrants in the boats are headed for the U.K., so why on earth should the French stop them leaving? Especially as the U.K. are being so hostile towards them

So, lets be pragmatic and practical.

What actions would you like French police / CRS - take on the beaches. Just give practical examples of what they should do- over this massively long stretch of coast.

The Police who see migrants arriving with a dinghy- surrounded with people, men, women and children. Should they shoot? Do you think that could get a clear shot of the dinghy without risking maiming killing any of the people carrying the dinghy, getting into it, or once in it.

Just a simple practical question for you.

Dickens

Lincslass

Believe extra drones , and other navigational aids to help catch these smugglers, have been offered by the UK, one ex Navy chief was saying. All help been turned down by the French.

Given the anti-French rhetoric emanating from this government, it's hardly surprising our offer has been turned down.

... and France is as precious about its sovereignty as we are.

Also, certain laws and regulations would have to be put in place to govern the behaviour of our military / police on foreign soil. We are now a third country, no longer a partner.

Put the boot on the other foot - how willing would Britain be to allow the French to patrol our borders do you think?

I was only repeating what had been said. All the bad rhetoric has not been onesided either, the French blaming us because we don’t have ID , oh and a job market that is thriving, and I’m sure they have as much a thriving black market as we do.We also must remember these migrants are actually on French soil, not the UK. So in France their problem, non?
We have been requested to help on the Ukraine border, who may have an escalation with Russia, and we have gone to help. So make of this problem what you will, France in no way will seek a joint arrangement with us. So no need to be snarky with me. Yes if it was a dire problem, which this is, then yes I think we would accept help, under our jurisdiction, as Patel has offered with France, but they won’t countenance even that. They just want to lay all the blame at our door.

I do not have friends on FB that are unknown to me in real life, and like most, I use it to keep in touch especially on our local page with warnings about traffic jams, roadworks, pleas for help finding lost cats etc.

He actively sought people’s vote to stop the UKs ability to return asylum seekers to Europe.

What a charlatan he is.

^“But there can be better management of the crisis. The French can, perhaps, try harder to block the beaches”

Would the UK. block/ barbwire 90 kilometers of its coast line along the south coast?
A day out for the family, … to the beach and scramble under or over the blocks to play in the sea.

When people suggest things like this they should think if the tables were turned and what they would put up with.

All Boris does is blame the EU and accuse them for all the problems and tell them to solve them to keep his backbenchers and the population who voted for him quiet.
He throws these headlines out, UK soldiers and police in the EU to cover up and hide International Laws.
He is such an embarrassment.

There are some lovely groups on Facebook I recommend Silversurfers, a political free group ?.

The FB sites I go to are not nasty at all. You get what you sign up for I think. If they started any nastiness I would leave them immediately. I also never ,ever accept people as friends unless I know them personally.

GillT57

It seems to be my fault that anti migration posts are on my FB feed. Hmm. The thread in question was on a BBC news article about the recent deaths in the channel and certainly wasn't because I have friends who are raving anti immigration. Not that I need to explain to anyone.

OK, so it's the BBC site and not FB that is responsible for the comments written by ranters, then.

Did you either like or follow the BBC site ....?

I'm not a FB apologist, but saying that its FB that is a nasty place isn't actually reflective of the real world.

GSM- it is part of the picture in reply to 'Britain is full' - at the time of the Brexit vote, Britain was significantly fuller, in more ways than one. Certainly the elderly who have tragically died in last 2 years, are no longer 'putting a strain' on the NHS- this is not callous, it is a fact.

Glad I'm not on FB Gill.