Why is this happening?

Alegrias1

Well you speak for yourself Galaxy. I shall sleep sounder in my bed knowing that DiscoDancer1975 approves of my life choices.

?

Galaxy

I had children disco dancer strangely enough I couldnt care less about your opinion on my choices.

Nor should you....it doesn’t matter to me one way or the other, what choices you made.

11.19 11.30 MissAdventure what can I say. You and your gs have been treated horrendously by the system.

Women want men's jobs

Galaxy

And as it is young women who are earning more now and as there is quite a bit of evidence about the impact of the father being important to children surely it would make sense for fathers to be taking a step back from their careers. After all the children should have a choice too..

If fathers take a step back that would mean they take on the caring role?

If women want total equality then fathers should have 50% rights over their child, from conception. With DNA testing this is viable. When family courts ensure that fathers are equally likely to be awarded full custody of children in splits then we move closer to equality. Women want men's jobs so let's give men motherhood. Maybe they could make a better job of it and children would grow up better disciplined and respectful of others. Perhaps some would argue this is happening already and hence children are more violent and undisciplined.
Yes, let's blame men.

Well you speak for yourself Galaxy. I shall sleep sounder in my bed knowing that DiscoDancer1975 approves of my life choices.

I had children disco dancer strangely enough I couldnt care less about your opinion on my choices.

Alegrias1

I was a career woman. (I just got flamed for it, but there you go)

Speaking entirely from personal experience, I definitely needed the money.

You didn’t have children...so in my opinion,...and I’m sure it doesn’t count for much....you chose wisely.

I'd had 5 weeks off by then.
5 weeks of trudging around to dismantle her home, throw away her belongings, try and sell the bigger things, as well as having a bereaved 10 year old who had no support settling into a totally different life with me.

The council were on my case to clear her property, I had a funeral to arrange, a 20 odd yr old "job coach" telling me I could commute 90 mins each way to a job.

So I guess you could say that what is reaped is sown...

So much of children’s tv and videogames are violent it seems to me that there is one plot and only the different characters distinguish one from another - I think children become inured to that culture.

Forsythia

trisher

Perhaps it was "much better in our day" but has anyone asked "why?" In our day there was a supportive and extensive system which provided families and children with support and places to go. Any real supportive structure has been lost or deliberately abandoned, The girl and boys in the city centre would have been infants when the Tories cut the Sure Start support. It had a proven track record of keeping children out of crime and giving the poorest families a start in life. Let's put the blame firmly where it belongs and stop blaming those who are simply the victims of a society which has no values or morals. A society completely reflected in the life of our PM who when he was younger thought paying to have someone beaten up was completely acceptable.

Do you think then that if all these kids who are going round stabbing each other had access to a Sure Start programme that they wouldn’t be going round stabbing others? Is that what you’re stating here? Surely, plenty of people who grew up in poverty, and I can count myself as one of those, did not go round stabbing friends and family.

I think if society was the supportive and considerate sytem we grew up in there would be less violence. It isn't poverty that's the problem it's not having the provison you once had, along with a culture which is entirely based on aquisition and the individual. Sure Start certainly was something which cut young people's offending figures. There was evidence to show this. But it is the whole picture of lack of any provision for young people. There are no youth clubs, youth organisations struggle to keep going, schools are cutting services to the bone. Unless you can afford to pay for your child to go to classes the only way they have experiences outside the home is by wandering the streets.

My boy was left on his own, because I had the job centre hounding the life out of me when my girl died.
No family, no mum friends, plus my work isn't 9 - 5.
They wrote to my gp and told him not to issue any more sick notes.

Yes my child was walking to school at age 10 to prepare him at age 11 for move to secondary school. I live in a village but presumably parents living in a town do the same.

We have to let children have increasing amounts of independence otherwise they will be suddenly plunged into a world of work, university, travel and have no idea how to cope.

The system isn't set up to allow mothers to stay home with their children.
I've certainly found that out, and my work has had to be arranged to hopefully coincide with times when my boy is out and about.

Calistemon ?

Alegrias1

Calistemon

I'm also quite good at not jumping to misinformed conclusions.
And what would those be, exactly?
And why would you think that all other posters but you are misinformed

Well here's a few...

That the four children arrested for Ava's murder were all responsible for it.

That they are psychopaths.

That if their parents has been better parents that none of it would have happened.

That'll do for starters. And its not "all" other posters. Comprehension of the written word. That's quite relevant here...

Ok, fair enough, I argued those points too.

I assumed you meant about the ONS but never assume anything is a good rule.

Sarnia
I don't know her background but a report I read said her Mum was working in Primark which was nearby. She still hasn't got an adult with her but once youngsters reach secondary school they want some degree of independence and one could argue why should a 12 year old girl watching the Christmas lights switched on be in any danger?

I agree with that absolutely.

It is so tragic.

Its probably also worth pointing out that if women didnt go back to work, large sections of society would simply collapse, teaching, nursing, etc.

And as it is young women who are earning more now and as there is quite a bit of evidence about the impact of the father being important to children surely it would make sense for fathers to be taking a step back from their careers. After all the children should have a choice too..

Anniel

I read the front page. The first thing i wondered is what is a girl doing out at night in the city centre at the age of 12? I am a Liverpudlian from long ago and we never went out into the city at night! I can see i am old fashioned! The accused boys are also very young. Did you let your children go out after dark into a big city centre? Just asking?

I don't know her background but a report I read said her Mum was working in Primark which was nearby. She still hasn't got an adult with her but once youngsters reach secondary school they want some degree of independence and one could argue why should a 12 year old girl watching the Christmas lights switched on be in any danger?

I was a career woman. (I just got flamed for it, but there you go)

Speaking entirely from personal experience, I definitely needed the money.

Ps...your last paragraph was not said by me!!

Dickens

^There are plenty of us...women, who also don’t want a female Dr. Who, or James Bond^

When I talked about ‘ working women’ paperbackwriter, I wasn’t meaning those who have to put food on the table. I’m talking about the people who choose it over looking after their children.

I really don't quite know what to say - this is absurd.

Dr Who and Mr Bond are fictional characters - this is entertainment, literature, acting... a world that is separate from every day life. The 'arts' world is free to express itself in whichever way it chooses - that is the point of Art.

You have a choice - if you don't like the subject matter, you really don't have to watch, read or look.

And if men are so insecure that an entertaining piece of science fiction with a woman as the main character makes them feel threatened, then the problem is with them.

As for "working women" who have to "put food on the table". These women need well-paying jobs. How do they get them other than by entering into the professions, by studying, by taking exams, by getting degrees - by doing the same jobs that men take for granted?
And if they are married with a family, they have to fit this in with those commitments. Which means they might have to employ someone to look after their children.
What you are basically saying - and it can't be interpreted any other way, is that women with young children should only work if they have to, to make ends meet. If they have no qualifications, then what jobs should they do - cleaning, shop work, just the menial work that can be fitted around their duties at home? And low paid work at that.

This is the 40s / 50s mentality - where women were sometimes allowed by their husbands to work for 'pin' money, or to help out with the family budget. Is that what you want us to return to?

Finally, do you have any concrete proof that the children of women who work and are looked after by a child-minder or nanny, are statistically more likely to be the violent offenders?

I know plenty of women who would have given anything to stay at home and look after their children. The jobs they do are not careers. Working in supermarkets etc. They work because they have to.

Career women are generally about choice. They don’t necessarily need the money, they just want to work. In my opinion....and it is just that....my opinion, that’s fine, no problem at all if children are not involved. The children should have a choice too.

You would obviously disagree, and that’s also fine. We both have a right to our opinions.

Calistemon

^I'm also quite good at not jumping to misinformed conclusions.^
And what would those be, exactly?
And why would you think that all other posters but you are misinformed

Well here's a few...

That the four children arrested for Ava's murder were all responsible for it.

That they are psychopaths.

That if their parents has been better parents that none of it would have happened.

That'll do for starters. And its not "all" other posters. Comprehension of the written word. That's quite relevant here...

Galaxy

To be fair to Johnson, not a sentence I use often, he is an example of a cycle of damage, his childhood involved his father breaking his mothers nose, numerous affairs etc. He wasnt going to come out of it undamaged.

And yet, his brothers and sister appear to have done. So it’s the individual traits in him that makes him as he is surely?