Why is this happening?

To be fair to Johnson, not a sentence I use often, he is an example of a cycle of damage, his childhood involved his father breaking his mothers nose, numerous affairs etc. He wasnt going to come out of it undamaged.

trisher

Perhaps it was "much better in our day" but has anyone asked "why?" In our day there was a supportive and extensive system which provided families and children with support and places to go. Any real supportive structure has been lost or deliberately abandoned, The girl and boys in the city centre would have been infants when the Tories cut the Sure Start support. It had a proven track record of keeping children out of crime and giving the poorest families a start in life. Let's put the blame firmly where it belongs and stop blaming those who are simply the victims of a society which has no values or morals. A society completely reflected in the life of our PM who when he was younger thought paying to have someone beaten up was completely acceptable.

Do you think then that if all these kids who are going round stabbing each other had access to a Sure Start programme that they wouldn’t be going round stabbing others? Is that what you’re stating here? Surely, plenty of people who grew up in poverty, and I can count myself as one of those, did not go round stabbing friends and family.

I'm also quite good at not jumping to misinformed conclusions.
And what would those be, exactly?
And why would you think that all other posters but you are misinformed

Perhaps it was "much better in our day" but has anyone asked "why?" In our day there was a supportive and extensive system which provided families and children with support and places to go. Any real supportive structure has been lost or deliberately abandoned, The girl and boys in the city centre would have been infants when the Tories cut the Sure Start support. It had a proven track record of keeping children out of crime and giving the poorest families a start in life. Let's put the blame firmly where it belongs and stop blaming those who are simply the victims of a society which has no values or morals. A society completely reflected in the life of our PM who when he was younger thought paying to have someone beaten up was completely acceptable.

eazybee

The point about the murder of Ava White is that knife crime has reached a new low; a defenceless young girl attacked and knifed by at least one of a group of teenage boys.
That does not make any of the previous all- too-common teenage crimes any less dreadful; gang fights, the knifing of vulnerable boys, girls and boys conspiring to murder a troublesome friend or parent, casual attacks because 'he looked at me wrong', a non-swimmer thrown into a river and left to drown after school was out, (local) and many more.

But one more boundary has been broken by this crime and won't be repaired. This crime is unforgiveable, as are all the others, but new depths of degradation have been reached, and to repeat the thread title: why is this happening?

Quite correct and this is the crux of the matter.

The point about the murder of Ava White is that knife crime has reached a new low; a defenceless young girl attacked and knifed by at least one of a group of teenage boys.
That does not make any of the previous all- too-common teenage crimes any less dreadful; gang fights, the knifing of vulnerable boys, girls and boys conspiring to murder a troublesome friend or parent, casual attacks because 'he looked at me wrong', a non-swimmer thrown into a river and left to drown after school was out, (local) and many more.

But one more boundary has been broken by this crime and won't be repaired. This crime is unforgiveable, as are all the others, but new depths of degradation have been reached, and to repeat the thread title: why is this happening?

It started with the odd babybel, that was the gateway cheese.
Before I knew it, I was lying in a gutter, carving cathedral city extra mature....

The trouble is if you arent relying on statistics, you are relying on randoms on the internet saying for example it's the fault of mothers who go to work. I too am a random on the internet, my theory could be that crime is caused by eating too much cheese, this does not mean my theory or anyone elses have any accuracy whatsoever.

Alegrias1

I'm not an authority on so many topics.

I just seem to be able to discern fact from fiction and actually understand things that are written in the press. I'm also quite good at not jumping to misinformed conclusions.

How wonderful. We must all follow your example.

It's obvious, surely, that there is no "one size fits all" answer. (To the original question, not Alegrias' authority to answer questions posed on an internet forum)

I'm not an authority on so many topics.

I just seem to be able to discern fact from fiction and actually understand things that are written in the press. I'm also quite good at not jumping to misinformed conclusions.

Put me down while assuming superiority.

Pot, kettle, black!

???

Alegrias1

Oh, OK, then.

Put me down while assuming superiority.

That'll end well.

Care to address the actual points I raise instead of making veiled personal attacks?

Can you be specific about your varied professional life that makes you an authority on so many topics? I for one have no idea and I’m sure others would also find it of interest.

Oh, OK, then.

Put me down while assuming superiority.

That'll end well.

Care to address the actual points I raise instead of making veiled personal attacks?

There was quite a group of people my son knew around, maddyone and he just got a black eye, thankfully.

let's assume that GN posters know better than the professional statisticians

We know about your varied professional life Alegrias because you've posted about it but not everyone does that.

That exact scenario happened to one of my sons Calistemon, he had been out with a group of friends for the night and they were just leaving to go home. They saw a man knocking a young woman about and he intervened saying that you don’t hit a woman. He was rewarded by being head butted and kicked when he was on the ground.

Still, as long as we have people, as on here, trying to score political points instead of looking into ways to turn back the tide it will just get worse.

OK then, let's just assume that the Police are hiding the real figures; that the figures are wrong. Even though the ONS uses the National Crime Survey to balance the Police reported figures, let's assume that GN posters know better than the professional statisticians and that crime is spiralling.

What's your answer tickingbird? What do we do about it?

While you are thinking I'll tell you my anecdote. My DH's uncle was murdered one day at the age of 6, walking home from school for his lunch. I'm not telling you this for sympathy, obviously it was long before my DH was born and even before DH's mother was born. He was chosen at random by an ex-serviceman who had recently returned from the front during WW1. The murder was reported in a couple of paragraphs in the local paper and syndicated around papers in the UK. Can you imagine if that had happened recently? The Daily Mail would be having a field day.

So please spare me the sanctimonious stories about bad parenting and duplicitous policemen. Of course the increase knife crime in the young is something we need to resolve. But sounding off about how it was much better in our day is just so much hot air.

One of my sons was also badly attacked for no reason when he was 19, walking home from a night out. Police did absolutely nothing. I wrote to my MP and received an apology from the police.
tickingbird I'm sorry to hear that, yes my DS also got hit on a night out, trying to defend a girl whom he didn't even know. It wasn't bad and wasn't reported to the police. I don't think knife crime was such a huge problem then although I know that it did happen.

I hope you don't mind me taking your point about the police doing nothing - that was another crime not included in the statistics.
As I said, the ONS can only produce the statistics from the information provided.

Did the four boys attack the girl with knives and what was the
unfortunate remark ?

Anniel

Calistemon,

I am NOT blaming the victim at all but i think parents have the responsibility to keep their children safe. The same goes for the boys involved. I have years of teaching experience and i have chlldren and gchildren and two g grandchildren and your idle remarks annoy me!

your idle remarks annoy me!
My remarks are not idle as you put it so rudely Annie1.

I think you are asking the wrong questions.
You make it sound as if the group of girls were roaming the streets late at night when in fact they were at an organised event in the evening.

It wasn't midnight, 2 am and no, I wouldn't allow a 12 year old out at that time.

The question is not why was a group of girls there in the early evening at the switching on of Christmas lights.

The question is why were a group of young teenage boys roaming the streets at an event like this, armed with knives.
Why did these boys kill an innocent young girl over what sounded like an unfortunate remark?
Why are girls and women (and, in fact other young men) not safe to be out in the early evening or in day-time without the risk of being killed?

Why are we, as a society, failing them?

Those of us than can mostly protect ourselves and our families, we move away from the high crime areas into the safer suburbs or country areas where personal attacks are much less likely. This leaves those who don’t have a choice, who remain in often poor quality housing that attracts more who don’t have choices and very often unemployed.
If only those unemployed could be mobilized to improve the area

Having a different opinion to you is not scoring political points.

Two of the boys were 13 years old , did the four have knives ?

Did you let your children go out after dark into a big city centre? Just asking?

I have 3 sons and NO they weren’t allowed into the city centre at night at that age.

Not victim blaming, just talking sense.

One of my sons was also badly attacked for no reason when he was 19, walking home from a night out. Police did absolutely nothing. I wrote to my MP and received an apology from the police.

Still, as long as we have people, as on here, trying to score political points instead of looking into ways to turn back the tide it will just get worse.

What do you have against real statistics? The fact that it doesn’t line up with your opinion?

Because statistics are crime figures massaged by the police to make themselves look better.

As I stated earlier open your eyes.

I do wonder why a certain section of society don’t want to admit crime and violence has increased over the years. I suppose they’d have to admit their liberal approach and daft ideas hasn’t worked - far from it.