Liz Truss replaces Lord Frost as chief negotiator with the EU

Josieannn
Obviously a broad minded family, like some of us on GN.

Lots of friends believed the Brexit diatribe 4 yrs ago and hoped for a better deal, they are still friends, it is just a subject not to be discussed in company. It’s only an issue if you make it an issue, I would not dream of starting a political dispute with a friend.

I don’t believe it either Kali.
It may be that some keyboard warriors say that kind of daft thing on forums but real life is quite different.

Dinahmo

This is a political thread and people will have widely different views. However, if you come up with unfounded comments then you should expect to be queried.

There's an old saying - if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

I think that some people think that arguing with something is rude, or impolite. It is neither, unless the comments are personally unkind. I can't say that I've seen unkind comments on here.

Expect to be queried yes....not jumped on from a great height!
And I must say Dinahmo that you often say that you don’t see any unkind comments...even when they are staring everybody else in the face.

Kali2

But do you discuss the issues, the facts, the consequences- or ignore them?

I belong to several pro EU/remain groups (no surprise there, hey!) - and you just cannot believe the number who say that they just have to make any excuse not to meet up with some friends, family and especially older parents (like Frost, the use Covid as an excuse) who voted for Brexit- which is so affecting their lives. Many of course who live in the EU and just cannot bear to visit parents or have them over to visit, and are actually dreading Covid to be over, in a way.

I know you won't believe me, but ...

Well I don't believe it Kali2.
My politician uncle I spoke of earlier campaigned to leave the EU. It was painful for him because his wife was a remainer and their children outright European federalists. God forbid that this disharmony of opinion should cause such a rift as you mention in the family, in fact the children visit their father on a weekly basis taking the grandchildren with them.
I think I would rather respect this great man and his offspring than the attitude of posters on pro EU/remain groups who say they can't bear to go near their parents.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD I value friendship, if I am in trouble a friend will be there for me as opposed to a politician, whatever their party.

There is a wonderful world outside of politics…

That doesn't actually answer my question, GG13

No need for naughty step right now- there is nowt wrong with an 'opinion' as long as you don't put it forwards as a 'fact' and agree it can be disputed. Knowing the difference is quite important, methinks.

GG13 andJosieann ?? x 100.

That seems very clear, to me ... and yes, that is an opinion, and not really a fact - I suppose

Ooh I’ll make room for you on the north step Kali2!

Is he going to give up his peerage in protest?

Just because something is published in a newspaper doesn't make it correct.

But if you object you get into dreary debates about 'correct usage' v. 'common usage' and 'language changes over time. And banished to Pedants' Corner...

Do you think he gave up on his principles for his own advancement?

Both Frost and Truss were 'apparently' strong Remainers. They may have published somewhere a coherent reason for changing sides but I've never seen it. In Trusses case one wonders if she just backed Remain for political convenience and changed her tune when it was no longer convenient. Perhaps she has no firm view in either direction, just goes where the wind blows her.

Frost is an enigma; minor diplomat and then a businessman. I'm inclined to the view that advancement is the key.

power

Posts crossed, that was to Cali.

He sold his soul for poer, money and a place in the Lords- and therefore gave up all his beliefs, research and principles, to become what was required of him by his new Masters - and thus became vociferous in his support of Vote Leave- as he had no choice having accepted the above. That seems very clear, to me ... and yes, that is an opinion, and not really a fact - I suppose.

How sad to read, especially on a site like Gransnet, that many reject their parents due to how they voted in the referendum.

MaizieD I value friendship, if I am in trouble a friend will be there for me as opposed to a politician, whatever their party.

There is a wonderful world outside of politics…

Yes, it is quite clear, thanks.

Many of course who live in the EU and just cannot bear to visit parents or have them over to visit, and are actually dreading Covid to be over, in a way

Goodness Kali2 that’s beyond sad. It’s like ‘estrangement through the back door’.

‘My way or the highway (for you)’ comes to mind. And sadly I do believe you.

On your other point, yes of course I remember Frost was a remainder. But he was a businessman then. Speaking out to his paymasters and shareholders.

He then left the whisky business and before the referendum embraced Brexit (maybe his true feelings - who knows?’. He was vociferous in his support of Vote Leave I seem to recall.

But as ever, this is from memory (not Google) so if my facts are wrong I’m happy to be corrected.

Somehow a ^ got mislaid: I was quoting your post, Kali2

It is the spelling and grammar of the Edinburgh News- so perhaps allowed.

not sure - they should have noticed it.
Just because something is published in a newspaper doesn't make it correct.
However, if you are cutting and pasting you shouldn't correct it anyway.
How about the rest of the article umg- are you aware the Frost was a very strong Remainer with good arguments to boot- and only agreed to take on the job for power, money and a place in the Lords? Perhaps that is more relevant than 'hoist' or 'hoisted'? Just perhaps.^

Do you think he gave up on his principles for his own advancement?
^

GrannyGravy13

I voted to leave the EU, I have friends who voted the same, friends who voted to stay and friends who decided not to vote.

We are still friends, no arguments or nastiness…

And how often do you have serious discussions about Brexit GG13?

If I were in a pub with a mixed group and someone said something I knew to be untrue I would challenge them. No different from on here...

But do you discuss the issues, the facts, the consequences- or ignore them?

I belong to several pro EU/remain groups (no surprise there, hey!) - and you just cannot believe the number who say that they just have to make any excuse not to meet up with some friends, family and especially older parents (like Frost, the use Covid as an excuse) who voted for Brexit- which is so affecting their lives. Many of course who live in the EU and just cannot bear to visit parents or have them over to visit, and are actually dreading Covid to be over, in a way.

I know you won't believe me, but ...

It is the spelling and grammar of the Edinburgh News- so perhaps allowed.

How about the rest of the article umg- are you aware the Frost was a very strong Remainer with good arguments to boot- and only agreed to take on the job for power, money and a place in the Lords? Perhaps that is more relevant than 'hoist' or 'hoisted'? Just perhaps.

I voted to leave the EU, I have friends who voted the same, friends who voted to stay and friends who decided not to vote.

We are still friends, no arguments or nastiness…

Calistemon

Mamie

And yes, I think Keir Starmer is fiercely intelligent. He came from a working class background, went to grammar school and Leeds University before becoming a barrister, QC and DPP. That is impressive however you look at it.
I don't know how many people on here actually listen to his speeches, read what he says, follow him on Twitter etc, but I get the impression some people judge him without listening to what he actually says.

Yes, he is quietly impressive.
Perhaps he needs more spark.

I agree, a bit more verve would help his performance.

Urmstongran

Erm ... I think it’s just ‘hoist’ but I’m willing (as always) to be corrected.

You know the rules, Ug. Don't comment on people's spelling or grammar.