Why is our Home Office so toxic?

MaizieD, Thursday 30/12, 18:40, I strongly agree with you.

I think Maize makes a good point too Alegrias.

Pepper59 I never meant to suggest you had said they were on easy street, apologies if it appeared that way. I was just trying to show the difficult situation they often find themselves in.

I agree with MaizieD as regards housing.

Pepper59

MaizeD, but you do admit something needs to be done about housing?

I do admit that. It would be daft not to as we're short of housing and have been for a long time.

But I don't think it's an excuse to keep asylum seekers out. It's a reason to exercise a humanitarian political choice and elect those who would exercise enough control of the housing market to ensure that there is sufficient social and affordable housing to satisfy most needs.

Alegrias, I never stated they were on easy street. Where in my posts did I say this?I actually feel for some of them as I think (depending on what the person's expectations are), they will find life no less hard here, with perhaps the exception of escaping bombings or the terrible war situations they may find themselves in. People here may have a country but some of our citizens are also in terrible living situations. They need to be given support too.

MaizeD, but you do admit something needs to be done about housing?

Thank you for your posts, Alegrias. I did want to understand what Pepper59 was meaning before I commented, but you've said it all for me

As for housing; this is a question of political will to bypass 'the market', isn't it? There is very little public sector housing built; it's left to the private building companies to build housing; it suits them to keep housing in a state of scarcity because they can charge more for their scarce commodity.

They don't have any notions of social justice to hamper their profit chasing. Even the 'obligation' to build a certain amount of 'affordable housing' as a condition of obtaining planning permission seems to be quite easy to sidestep once permission is granted and building started.

We have a shortage of housing because housebuilding is predominately a market focussed operation.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/29/asylum-seekers-in-uk-housed-in-converted-hostel-with-prison-cells

They're not on easy street.

The asylum seekers don't even have a country, let alone a home.

Housing is not a distraction if you don't have a home.

Pepper59

Alegrias, thats a good clear explanation. However, I have tried to give an explanation for my own opinion. I can accept people will have differing ones. I think what I wanted to say was housing in this country needs looked at, whether it be for people who already live here, or those who have the hope to live here. I can see this is now becoming a very contentious thread, but everyone here is entitled to their opinion. The only other thing I will add is, I don't think the Home Office has been very well organised for years. The political party matters not.

I'm a bit of a pedant Pepper59. When people start to talk about people not being "genuine" asylum seekers I think it sets up a false negativity about the people who arrive on our shores looking for a safer life.

Its not really a matter of opinion if you think they are asylum seekers or not, they just are. They may prove to not be entitled to asylum, but that's not something that can be assessed when they arrive on the beach. I posted a link earlier today about the people in Glasgow who prevented two asylum seekers being taken off to a detention centre. I believe I am correct in thinking that the men were eventually deported. But they were not taken away in a van without anybody knowing where they had gone, and they didn't have their rights just trampled on. Its all about setting up a humane environment for people, and treating them like human beings.

Regarding housing, in my view this is just a distraction. People I know who have come here as asylum seekers (not from Afghanistan or Syria, incidentally) were housed temporarily but now contribute to the society which helped them, including working for a living and paying their own mortgages.

My family on all sides were economic migrants to this country and other countries but I have always felt the difference is poverty. They moved to do poorly paid work such as mining. My husband for example has worked all over the world, he would never consider himself an economic migrant, he is professional in his field.

Alegrias, thats a good clear explanation. However, I have tried to give an explanation for my own opinion. I can accept people will have differing ones. I think what I wanted to say was housing in this country needs looked at, whether it be for people who already live here, or those who have the hope to live here. I can see this is now becoming a very contentious thread, but everyone here is entitled to their opinion. The only other thing I will add is, I don't think the Home Office has been very well organised for years. The political party matters not.

Pepper59

My explanation of an economic migrant. My understanding is you cannot just go to any country you fancy and live there. I would love to live in another country say Norway for example. It does not mean I have an automatic right to live in that country, just because I want to or believe I will have a better life there. I may be wrong but genuine asylum seekers to my mind are fleeing war or persecution of some sort. This in my opinion is a genuine asylum seeker or refugee. I certainly don't understand either why many pass through France, Germany etc to get to either here or somewhere else. I do realise my opinion isn't popular but someone asked for an explanation. This is the best I can do. Im not an expert or an academic.

If people come here and wish to ask for asylum, then by definition they are asylum seekers. Because they are seeking asylum. So anyone who come here and asks for asylum, is by definition, an asylum seeker.

Now, as they go through the process, it may be discovered that they have come here from a country that is not dangerous, or war torn, or subject to huge natural disaster. I don't actually know what the criteria for being granted asylum are. But I do know that after due process, if you are not considered to be in need of asylum, then you are sent home.

But they can't assess that when a person lands here on a beach, or off a plane, of whatever. It takes time. So they are all "genuine" asylum seekers, they might just not have their claim approved.

I also meant address the issues to help and assist genuine asylum seekers/refugees. People from Syria, Afghan interpreters and others fleeing or persecuted. I perhaps did not word that well enough.

My explanation of an economic migrant. My understanding is you cannot just go to any country you fancy and live there. I would love to live in another country say Norway for example. It does not mean I have an automatic right to live in that country, just because I want to or believe I will have a better life there. I may be wrong but genuine asylum seekers to my mind are fleeing war or persecution of some sort. This in my opinion is a genuine asylum seeker or refugee. I certainly don't understand either why many pass through France, Germany etc to get to either here or somewhere else. I do realise my opinion isn't popular but someone asked for an explanation. This is the best I can do. Im not an expert or an academic.

JenniferEccles in Sanskit Priti means, among other things, Kindness or Love. I rest my case.

Dynahmo . I really did preview my post. Perhaps I should cut down on the Pinot Grigio. Perhaps Soave would be better.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

Then perhaps we can address genuine asylum seekers, not economic migrants.

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

I think there is a perception that economic migrants are making a lifestyle choice as opposed to asylum seekers fleeing for their lives from unsafe Countries.

I do not agree with my first paragraph however, this idea is constantly pushed by sections of the media.

I'd be happy to hear from Pepper59 just what they mean by it.

I guess some of us just react to the situation differently than others

www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/glasgow-kenmure-street-protest-named-22578458

MaizieD

^Then perhaps we can address genuine asylum seekers, not economic migrants.^

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

I think there is a perception that economic migrants are making a lifestyle choice as opposed to asylum seekers fleeing for their lives from unsafe Countries.

I do not agree with my first paragraph however, this idea is constantly pushed by sections of the media.

Then perhaps we can address genuine asylum seekers, not economic migrants.

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

I appreciate Sarnia's comment. Where I live it's a ten year waiting list for a house and I know scores of 20, 30 and in some cases 40+ year olds who are still living with their parents as they cannot get a place of their own. The rents are just extortionate where I am and houses( that are not worth the asking price) are sold for exhorbitant sums of money. Help is needed for homeless people living here. Then perhaps we can address genuine asylum seekers, not economic migrants.

"it doesn't have a an hotel capable of hosing so many guests."
So the guests can't even get clean!

Allsorts you say there is an hotel in N. Warwickshire which is housing 100 refugees.

I'll freely admit that although I've lived here for nearly five years I don't know the area all that well. However I am fairly close to a substantial town and am pretty sure (sorry about that) that it doesn't have a an hotel capable of hosing so many guests.

Where is it?