It's just a cold

tests for coming to the UK after travel are being dropped.

No, they are not.

For the thousandth time.

MayBeMaw

Kali2

''“we need to continue to be careful”etc etc??''

we as a society, I thought that was obvious. Solidarity and all that, quite simple.

Josiann- that is wonderful to hear. I was there until just a couple of days ago, and this was not the case.

JillyJosie I am glad you understand what I am saying. We have 'sacrificed' 2 years- surely we can wait a bit longer, a couple of months until winter is over. Not paranoid, no hysterical- but just careful and sensible, with respect and care for all, but especially the most vulnerable, young or old, or anything in between.

So you maintain that we as a society are “dropping all safety measures” - somehow you gave the impression you were talking about the U.K.

It’s more than a bit of an over generalisation to apply that statement to “society” in general. Neither Scotland nor Wales are, and as far as I know France and Germany are not either.

You do love twisting my words. Yes, I was talking about the UK- but the same applies everywhere. This virus does not stop at borders- and yes, tests for coming to the UK after travel are being dropped.

We all need to continue to be careful for a couple of months still- that applies to all, yes, generalised, sweeping. But yes, onle England is talking about dropping testing for travellers, and not enforcing mask wearing, gel- and talking about limiting access to LFT. You quoted my text, where does it say what you say it says! NOwhere.

I do so hate sweeping statements.

Well what do you expect when you are run by ex public schoolboys who lack empathy? They don’t care.

From the Independent, you'll have to make your own mind up whether these fit your personal label of scientist:

Meanwhile, scientists voiced concern that the government appeared to be signalling that it was ready to move the UK towards “living with Covid”.

University College London professor Christina Pagel said: “A virus isn’t endemic just because a government minister says it is and just because people want it to be.

“Learning to live with Covid would actually involve some learning. For instance, creating safer environments through mass investment in clean air. Pretending Covid is not a problem is not the same thing.”
Prof Pagel said that the “minimal public health response” to the Omicron variant adopted by the government in England “seems set to doom us to massive surges once or twice a year”.

“If that continues we’ll keep picking off the vulnerable, keep stressing a weakening NHS, [and] create more chronic illness and mass disruption through people off sick every time, with a lower quality of life for all of us,” she added.

GP Dr Helen Salisbury, a member of the Independent Sage group of scientists and medics, said: “People are talking about Covid ‘becoming endemic’ as if this is a good thing.

“TB and smallpox were once endemic in the UK – it doesn’t mean mild, it just means widespread.

“Other countries aren’t throwing in the towel – why has our government given up trying to protect us?”

And Oxford University professor of primary care Trisha Greenhalgh said: “Stop testing, play it down, normalise the deaths, deny the long-term consequences, learn to live with it, mock the scientists... I’m trying to imagine what would’ve happened if we’d taken the same approach to a previous fast-spreading infectious disease, such as smallpox, polio, TB or HIV.”

Aveline

'Doomscrolling' excellent word Alegrias.

Yeah.. I'm gonna USE that word. Ta !

How often do we need to repeat
No-body-is-dropping-all-safety-measures
Making something up and then arguing against it is, I understand known as “straw-manning” in debating terminology.

Kali2

No lemon, I am not. I am advocating that dropping all safety measures now is too early, and that we need to continue to be careful for a couple of months, until winter is over. And yes, not doing so could have very serious consequences- that is NOT hysteria, just common sense.

We're not dropping all safety measures.

We're not locked down but we have advice to follow and those who were advised to shield last time have received letters again recently with advice on the best ways to take care without actually locking themselves down at home.

Plan B is operating in England until further notice
Rules to be reviewed tomorrow in Scotland - reviewed does not necessarily mean relaxed
New rules were introduced in Wales after Christmas.

Alegrias1

I really mustn't get started on the MSM's representation of science and scientists during this pandemic. I could fill another thread...

Oh please do. I can’t wait to read it.

Kali2

''“we need to continue to be careful”etc etc??''

we as a society, I thought that was obvious. Solidarity and all that, quite simple.

Josiann- that is wonderful to hear. I was there until just a couple of days ago, and this was not the case.

JillyJosie I am glad you understand what I am saying. We have 'sacrificed' 2 years- surely we can wait a bit longer, a couple of months until winter is over. Not paranoid, no hysterical- but just careful and sensible, with respect and care for all, but especially the most vulnerable, young or old, or anything in between.

So you maintain that we as a society are “dropping all safety measures” - somehow you gave the impression you were talking about the U.K.

It’s more than a bit of an over generalisation to apply that statement to “society” in general. Neither Scotland nor Wales are, and as far as I know France and Germany are not either.

What's with all this
yesterday I was accused of .....
the other day someone said .......
last week I was thoroughly castigated for .....
last month, last year .......
Do posters really have to say all this nonsense in their comments? It detracts from the discussion.

JillyJosie2

Allegias someone the other day commented that you could start a fight in an empty room, it made me laugh.

I think if you go back and check JillyJosie2 it was another poster that was referred to, NOT Alegrias1

I really mustn't get started on the MSM's representation of science and scientists during this pandemic. I could fill another thread...

Fun? Wow.

It's a science thing. True scientists see both side of the argument and debate it with themselves before going out to the outside world.

No they don't, they do all their arguing and debate in public, it has been quite fun watching them do it during COVID.

''“we need to continue to be careful”etc etc??''

we as a society, I thought that was obvious. Solidarity and all that, quite simple.

Josiann- that is wonderful to hear. I was there until just a couple of days ago, and this was not the case.

JillyJosie I am glad you understand what I am saying. We have 'sacrificed' 2 years- surely we can wait a bit longer, a couple of months until winter is over. Not paranoid, no hysterical- but just careful and sensible, with respect and care for all, but especially the most vulnerable, young or old, or anything in between.

It's a science thing. True scientists see both side of the argument and debate it with themselves before going out to the outside world.

Old habits die hard, I guess.

Scientists also know the difference between rate and absolute number, and most people know the difference between England and the UK. Not everyone though.

p.s. one l

Allegias someone the other day commented that you could start a fight in an empty room, it made me laugh.

"I am well aware that what I say now sounds brutal, but what is our current population? 65 million? Are we to destroy the economy which sustains all 65 million, deal with a overwhelming growth in mental illness and a higher morbidity in some illnesses and the destruction of the education of so many children's education, because 1 million people have long COVID? isn't it possible that more damage will be done to more people by continuing the current measures of protection?

I am not suggesting they they should be cut off and thrown to the wolves, there will be things that can be done to help them, but to expect the whole country to come to a halt to meet their needs is unreasonable." (why doesn't ^ for italics work??) ......... (Monica's post)

I wasn't suggesting that we should lockdown again Monica or anything like it such as holding the country to ransom for a 'few' people. I think I was protesting about careless attitudes, the kind of suggestions being made in the UK by certain politicians and their supporters are about pushing away the lifeboats metaphorically and (under other circumstances!!) deliberately.

The posts of Kali2 above say it all for me. What is being suggested, alluded to and posited by various members of the government feels like slight of hand/back turning. Why the rush?

The UK has the highest rate of deaths in Europe and the 7th highest rate in the world yet the minister for education blithely calls for the UK to lead the world from pandemic to endemic (which doesn't mean mild, it means widespread/a constant presence) and suggests cutting the isolation period from 7 to 5 days, i.e. when people are likely to be still testing positive and be infectious.

Other countries continue to have rules that include mask wearing and social distancing but we behave as though neither are any longer necessary. In fact, I saw somewhere that another Freedom Day is being mooted. FGS is all I can say but who cares, the ones who do are obvious on this thread. The rest well, Devil take the hindmost seems to be their maxim.

JillyJosie2

Allegias it's a balanced and interesting article with a thoughtful and ambivalent conclusion but I know you have a drum to bang.

Yeah, fair enough. My "drum" is that we should understand when someone actually knows what they are talking about, rather than just thinking they do.

So anyway, from the article: In 2022, therefore, there is almost no stage of the scientific process where AI hasn’t left its footprint. And the more we draw it into our quest for knowledge, the more it changes that quest. We’ll have to learn to live with that, but we can reassure ourselves about one thing: we’re still asking the questions. As Pablo Picasso put it in the 1960s, “computers are useless. They can only give you answers.”

If an article has a question in the headline, the answer is “no”. Betteridge’s law. Or even Hinchcliffe’s Rule, seeing as we’re talking about science.

Kali2

No lemon, I am not. I am advocating that dropping all safety measures now is too early, and that we need to continue to be careful for a couple of months, until winter is over. And yes, not doing so could have very serious consequences- that is NOT hysteria, just common sense.

As Lemongrove has pointed out , to say we in the U.K. are dropping all safety measures is mis-speaking on a grand scale.

And who exactly are you referring to when you say “we need to continue to be careful”etc etc??

Allegias it's a balanced and interesting article with a thoughtful and ambivalent conclusion but I know you have a drum to bang.

Kali2

No more testing for those coming from abroad, no compulsion to wear masks or use gel to go into shops, football matches, public transport, etc, and plans (yes not yet 'confirmed' ) to massively reduce access to LFT and reduce isolation to 5 days, etc- indicate that this is happening. Many here on GN have said, more or less, get on with it, come what may, and accused any person saying otherwise that they are hysterical.

Why can't we continue to be careful, and still get on with life, for just a couple of months more.

Australia has been very careful even though some of its rules were counter-productive eg with borders being closed, workers, including medical staff, were unable to cross borders until clearance was given which took some time.

Now, despite their efforts, Covid is spreading rapidly.

It's a shame you are no longer in the UK Kali2 because I would have invited you to a very compliant, respectful corner of the west country where everyone is being careful. Where we all wear masks while shopping and on the buses, where gel stations are provided, where hoteliers and restaurateurs ensure measures are in place to protect guests, where school kids move over on the path and wait before crossing the footbridge, where LFTs are handed out for free in town every week etc. The majority of people are being careful and they are being respectful of others. I have nothing but admiration for the way people have pulled together for so long.

Yes.