A sad and painful discovery in the story of Anne Frank

paddyann54

Not anti -semitic,desperation . We cant judge what was done all these years later through eyes that haven't seen the horrors visited on people during the Nazi regime .What we can do is try to stop those things happening again ,fight against government taking the same route that Hitler took.Look at the history books and open your eyes,the Tory government is on that same path .Dont let it happen again

So are you saying the Tory gov are going to deliberately kill people., as in a holocaust. You disgust me.

The Tory government/party is not even remotely like the Nazi regime or ever will be, and to say this is ridiculous or to have very little knowledge of the Hitler regime, or indeed any totalitarian regime.

The Nazi regime started slowly, over many years. It started with demonisation of some groups, and not only Jews. Beatings, shops windows broken. They were called vermin and worse. Slowly, slowly... it took years. My mother was studying in Munich in 1932- she saw it all and had to return home early, as it was escalating.

If you turn boats away, knowing they will drown- yes, children too, like Anne... then that is the beginning. Did yout watch the Documentary about Aghanistan last night. So many children, much younger and the same age as Anne. Not just one, 1000s.

We cannot know what went through people's minds at that time, such terrible circumstances and conditions. Who would react differently when faced with those choices, I'm not sure.

I'm also not sure about democracy being alive and well given some of the decisions made by different governments.

SueDonim I believe the man in question died in 1950 so yes he survived.

Lincslass

paddyann54

Not anti -semitic,desperation . We cant judge what was done all these years later through eyes that haven't seen the horrors visited on people during the Nazi regime .What we can do is try to stop those things happening again ,fight against government taking the same route that Hitler took.Look at the history books and open your eyes,the Tory government is on that same path .Dont let it happen again

So are you saying the Tory gov are going to deliberately kill people., as in a holocaust. You disgust me.

No I’m sure that is not what is meant, but authoritarian governments that defranchise some of the population, that aim to prevent such human rights as protest, that consider rules are only for the little people and those they despise, when they try to prevent critical reports by the National news broadcaster, when they aim to ship asylum seekers to unpleasant dictatorships in Africa and prevent as many as they can from entering our shores for help.

When people ask the question, “how on earth did people in Germany allow the slide into fascism?”

Remember this is how it starts.

The Nazi regime started as a direct result of the defeat of Germany after WW1. The terms and conditions of the Versailles agreement (together with one weak government after another ) were so draconian as to drive Germans into the arms of extremists who played on the despair created and actually for a while did deliver in getting the economy moving. Think Autobahn, which was naturally popular and led to Hitler becoming Chancellor after overthrowing the elderly Hindenburg. The rest is history.

Anniebach

I can’t say what I would do, yes I can sit in my home in 2022 and condemn , but would I betray another family to save mine or remain silent and let my family die .

We’ve often debated this within our family. The conclusion we reached is that my ex would do the most honourable thing possible but I feel that I would do anything if it saved my children. I don’t feel good about thinking that but I have to be honest with myself. None of us know how we’d behave in such a terrible situation.

There is two articles in daily newspapers about this , it’s sad it seemed giving the Franks hideout was his last card to play to save his family, who knows what anyone would do in that position.
One article seems the author of the book comes to the conclusion Otto Frank did know who betrayed him but because by then the man had died he saw no advantage to naming who it was . Very interesting reading.

I don’t disagree at all with posters saying it’s not anti Semitic to disclose this information now, I just said I wondered if it was.

None of us know how we would act if we were in the same situation. It’s unimaginable to us. Many Jews turned in their fellow Jews because they were afraid and if it kept them safe a little bit longer that was the price. I know this because I’ve read widely around this subject. As many of us have said, how could we possibly know what we would have done if our own dear children were at risk in this way.

People will rarely sacrifice themselves and are even less likely to sacrifice their children. From what I’ve read, if this individual did give up the Frank family, he was trying to keep his own from the gas chambers.
Jewish people did similar things in the ghettos. In the concentration camps, some Jewish prisoners helped the nazi guards, shaving heads, extracting gold teeth from bodies and so on. When you’re starving, brutalised and facing worse, you mainly want to survive.

I’m not suggesting the current government is anything like the Nazis but - the idea of expecting our Royal Navy to risk the lives of asylum seekers, rather than save them is disgusting and shameful. I

I feel I would have done anything if it saved my children.

Thank you MayBee for your honest post. I think many of us would have done anything too.
Many Jewish mothers gave away their children in order to save them. Especially their babies and especially girls. Nuns hid Jewish children in convents to keep them safe. Parents put their children on the KinderTransport. Most of the parents who hid or gave their children away never returned from the camps.

MayBee70 Tue 18-Jan-22 14:11:12
Anniebach
I can’t say what I would do, yes I can sit in my home in 2022 and condemn , but would I betray another family to save mine or remain silent and let my family die .
We’ve often debated this within our family. The conclusion we reached is that my ex would do the most honourable thing possible but I feel that I would do anything if it saved my children. I don’t feel good about thinking that but I have to be honest with myself. None of us know how we’d behave in such a terrible situation.

MayBee I have given it thought , my darling daughter died four years ago, I would betray another to save my children,

So would I Annie, God help me.

the idea of expecting our Royal Navy to risk the lives of asylum seekers, rather than save them is disgusting and shameful.

That goes against Maritime Law

There is a duty pursuant to international law for a ship to attempt the rescue of persons at danger at sea. ... All states recognize this duty. One implication of this rule is that a state cannot legally prohibit its vessels from rescuing persons at sea: states must accept that their vessels engage in rescue operations.
Oxford Law Faculty

What hideous choices you are considering. Do any of us know how we would behave in extremis?
Possibly, given that when we are fighting for breath, we can think only of ourselves and our next gasp for air, I fear there would be no choice.

Didn't Otto Frank survive the Holocaust? How awful to survive when your family perished.

Callistemon21

^the idea of expecting our Royal Navy to risk the lives of asylum seekers, rather than save them is disgusting and shameful.^

That goes against Maritime Law

Did you watch the Documentary about Afghanistan. Parents ready to give their children away to save, them, sell them indeed, in desperation.

And many here support Priti Patel's plant.

How very sad Josiann. I felt very sad when I visited Ann Frank's house, especially her bedroom, couldn't get out of there fast enough.

It is very sad but as maddy and others have said none of us know what choices we would have made in the same situation.

We know the choices some are making now, and without threat to their own families. How will those choices be judged in 80 years time?

None of us are in a position to judge as we have no idea how we would feel how it was at that time and how we would feel to betray another family to save our own. This is the awful choice that Jewish people had to make and we can only hope they have all been forgiven for whatever decision they made.

Agreed.

But we can judge the now, what we do now, or what we accept being done around us, and on our behalf.

I saw a programme about the Nazi occupation of Jersey. A soldier siezed hold of a woman with a small child, and asked her where a certain person was. She told him she didn't know; he pointed the gun at her little boy and said either she tell him or he would shoot the child. What would you do? I read that the man's family were threatened with death if he didn't betray the Franks. He has had to carry that for the rest of his life - I cannot imagine how he felt, or how he suffered. It's ok being brave on your own behalf, but who could see their child shot?

I can’t judge this man. I would have done whatever was required of me to save my own family. I think most would do the same.