Russian massing on the Ukrainian border

What do you mean by 'decent allies'?

You know, if you see a friend or friends going headlong into a terrible, utterly destructive mistake- helping them along is not always the most 'decent' thing to do.

Hats off to Denmark, population 5.8m. Sending an extra frigate into the Baltic and four F16 jets to Lithuania.

Denmark have shown that they are decent allies.

As Britain followed America's lead in evacuating embassy staff, EU diplomats announced their staff would remain in the country.

Top European diplomat Josep Borrell added that there was no need to "dramatise" the situation while talks with Russia continue.

As for the relevance of geography, but from a different angle.

I found this today, written by a friend, a Brit living in Germany

''This is point where I generally check a map to find out how far I'm away from whatever's brewing.

Not quite far enough is the answer this time.''

never a truer word, and that was written in 2014!!! Multiply this by 1000X and more now. Never mind EU or non EU, Brexit, Schengen, the Single Market or Free Movement- all become totally irrelevant at this stage.

BTW any other GNeters who are members of CND and who marched with me or others in the 80s- because we forecast that MAD was a massively dangerous policy that one day would be tested to the limit by some psychopath or other? Greenham, Molesworth, etc.

Jaberwok

Tbh, I can't be bothered with this thread anymore, these 'on our own 'comments are more than ridiculous and not worth discussing. I'm still at a loss over my supposed geographic comments. I'm out!

I did explain about geography, and about the position/relation of UK withing Europe having changed.

If you can't be bothered to think and realise what a dangerous situation we are in now, then I have to say I can totally understand that ignoring the whole thing and putting head in sand, is tempting, truly.

It would be comforting at this stage to feel we have a strong PM at the helm, a strong Foreign Secretary with experience and a cool head, adn a strong team surrounding them. Alas ...

tickingbird

UK withdrawing Ukrainian Embassy staff and families. This is starting to look very serious.

As are the USA

UK withdrawing Ukrainian Embassy staff and families. This is starting to look very serious.

Jaberwok

Tbh, I can't be bothered with this thread anymore, these 'on our own 'comments are more than ridiculous and not worth discussing. I'm still at a loss over my supposed geographic comments. I'm out!

? ? ?

Very valid comment. At least we won’t have to worry about energy bills as we won’t have any power if Putin cuts us off!

GB News has had plenty of coverage of the Ukraine/Russia issue for several days now - I find the BBC to be overly obsessed by the current Whitehall "issues" rather than international ones unfortunately. We are helping Ukraine with arms and training, and are sending Ben Wallace to Russia to speak with their defence minister - I'd hardly say the government have been ignoring the issue, shame I cannot say the same for the mainstream media.

General Richard Dannatt said in a interview on tv this morning that scratch Putin to the core and you will find an unreconstructed KGB colonel whose beloved Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union was destroyed by the cohesion of the West when the Berlin Wall came down so that now his ultimate aim is to undermine NATO by sowing discord and doubt among member states.
I don’t see how the Germans can avoid getting involved. They are NATO members - indeed, the Commander of the Allied Joint Force Command at its Netherlands HQ is a post traditionally taken up by a German General. A bit embarrassing if he had to say “sorry chaps, you’ll have to play without me on this one!”

We've seen a lot more fighter jets over North Yorkshire recently, hope we are not going to get physically involved beyond helping with armaments and training Ukraine troops. As Ukraine is not in NATO we have no obligations. The Baltic States are another matter though. The Germans wont get involved as they are more interested in their oil supplies for industry.
I'm currently reading Putin's People by Catherine Belton, he's been into sowing discord since his KGB days in Dresden in the then East Germany.

Our mps are being shown are childish and embarrassing the world is falling apart around them and all they seem to be bother about is bloody parties that happen last year and let be honest how many people broken the rules to some extent

Ukraine was a major story on the BBC News last night, and has been for several days, also in what we used to call the broadsheet press. I don't agree that it's been overtaken by party gate or P. Andrew.
We are powerless, the EU is powerless. Putin isn't bothered by talk. No need to blame our govt (about this, I mean).

do I gather Galaxy that you are a woman , or perhaps an enlightened man , who can multitask and think of more than one things at a time like Boorish (sorry Boris ) Johnson.
I think next years well used phrase to come out top will be something like " We need to Sue Grey that" Or maybe " This is not a black and white question . we need to Sue Grey it!

Tbh, I can't be bothered with this thread anymore, these 'on our own 'comments are more than ridiculous and not worth discussing. I'm still at a loss over my supposed geographic comments. I'm out!

When I was working I would do my job and go home at the end of the day, they shouldn't have parties, drinks events or 'working" lunches fueled by alcohol, at any time, brexit, covid, potential war threats or any other scenario. Do they have so little to do? How can they concentrate or make sensible decisions? As far as I know drinking when at work is a stackable offence. No one drinks and drives, likewise no one should drink and work, I find their attitude disgusting and highly inappropriate and yes they should be focusing on the issues the country and the world faces.

I agree with you Chewbacca. We are most certainly not alone. Where are these people getting this nonsense from?

Daisymae -you and me both !

I find the situation hugely worrying and potentially extremely dangerous .

And yet ,here is the constant media obsession with Boris Johnson ,their wallpaper , partygate and yet another Royal scandal .

I don't condone sex trafficking nor pretend for one moment that Prince Andrew hasn't done something very silly in continuing his association with Epstein .

A situation as volatile as this one with Putin has far great consequences .

And yet ,when I mentioned it to my friends it was airily dismissed .

listening to lunch time news, there is a suggestion that Russia is preparing to install a pro Russian leader in Ukraine post invasion. Even more worrying. Isn't Ukraine a democratic country/

Kali2
Scroll down to The End of Mad

www.thoughtco.com/mutually-assured-destruction-1221190

I know a lot about MAD through a friend who was on nuclear subs in the 80s.

All the while President Macron and Ursula von der Leon are in charge, we will never be able to have a mature conversation with the EU. They have shown their true colours IMO

The closer Russia gets to Western Europe and beyond, the closer it gets to USA who are still terrified of reds under the beds. They'll do anything to keep Russia basically in Russia or at least in the east of eastern Europe and owners remotely close to knocking on the Whitehouse door..chucking stones across a river is safer than allowing the enemy onto your own side of the riverbank. Putin is drunk on power, and you can't reason with a drunk

The USA are the only comparable power equipped to counter the Russia threat, simple maths.they have the money, equipment and the numbers to chuck back at them, like it or not they are actually the best thing the free world has to protect it. The rest of us are just stuffing.

MAD only effective when both play by same rules.i don't even want to contemplate someone deciding to clear the ground first-say with a devastatingly deadly virus to kill off those capable of defending themselves? Leaving an "empty" to be moved in to.....