Russian massing on the Ukrainian border

All our so named news channels are a disgrace! They're tantamount to red top rags on steroids! News? Don't know the meaning of the word!

Kali2

It is massively worrying. And the fact that the UK, now totally isolated from its European Allies and partners, is now sending arm to Ukraine- is beyond dangerous.

Quite ! Who do we think we are??? A major global power? An empire with far reaching strengths? Anything other than a sad little stand alone set of Islands currently governed over by a bunch of nose picking fag beating public school sniggering buffoons? God (if she's listening) help us. And STOP bigging up our part! There's nobody who will be prepared to help us out if we end up in the poo!

I’ve noticed and it’s very worrying ! Quite honestly I wish they’d all shut up about lockdown parties in number 10 so the government can focus on governing. I bet Putin is loving the distraction of our politicians fighting each other. Bet he’s laughing his head off at us!

This is far more important than partygate yet we seldom see any report on it in the media here. I have to resort to looking at RT or even Aljazeera if I want to see news about this, or almost any thing else. BBC and ITV should hang their heads in shame. Their news is so limited.

The EU should be presenting more of a united front, if not militarily then certainly showing more diplomatic strength.
Otherwise what is the point of it other than as a trading block?

Fashionista1

The Ukraine situation has been caused in part because there are still Russian speaking peoples who identify with being Russian and do not want to become Westernised or join Nato. From Russias view if all the bordering countries join Nato, then Russia could be seriously under threat and under the thumb to Europe. The Crimea, although annexed as part of Russia, is another potential threat to Russia's Black Sea Ports. It is not a simple solution and in my view nothing really to do with us. The US should be sorting this out.

There are enclaves of people all over the world who are living in countries that they are not entirely happy with. There's even Kaliningrad, which is a Russian enclave between Poland and Lithuania. Massing tanks on the border and rattling your sabre is not a valid way of protecting what they think their rights are - a natural extension of that would be for Russia to threaten Poland and Lithuania because their Russian compatriots are feeling a bit hemmed in.

Russia needs to stop thinking that everyone is out to get them and perhaps take on the concepts of democracy.

And as for leaving it to the US, nobody died and made them world police. Or is it just because Ukraine is a far away country of which we know nothing?

“The UK is working through Nato and in lockstep with the US to enact a policy of dialogue and deterrence, pursuing the diplomatic track but readying a package of sanctions that will pierce the heart of Russia’s economy should that fail.”

We are still in NATO and the EU doesn't have an army - yet....

This sounds like burying my head in the sand, but I daren’t even think about the possible consequences. There seems to be so many problems in this world. I have little innocent grandchildren and I often fear for their future. I hope this Russia/Ukraine situation doesn’t escalate - it’s not looking good.

The US should be sorting this out
There is no logic in this statement. I agree with you Calli.
It was more her take on the situation with Russians in the Ukraine that made me stop to think.

Callistemon21

Urmstongran

Interesting point Fashionista1.

But fallacious.

Why should the USA be sorting out European problems except as part of NATO?
Being part of NATO means being in an alliance with other countries, in Europe!

The US should be sorting this out.
There is no logic in this statement

No logic indeed.

And yet, can we say that there is logic in the UK getting so involved, and without the backing of the rest of Europe. Can't you see just how dangerous it is, with someone like Putin.

Signing off for a while.

effalump

I find this far more scary than covid. It's not like a war would just be firing guns at each other. If one leader is angry enough to press the red button, then it's game over.

I am 'glad' (and that is not the right word) - that you understand this. And you are so right.

M A D has held so far, it held during the Cuban crisis and teh Cold War. But will it hold forever.

We have had a few mad psycopaths around for a while. In North Korea, Trump - and now Putin.

Urmstongran

Interesting point Fashionista1.

But fallacious.

Why should the USA be sorting out European problems except as part of NATO?
Being part of NATO means being in an alliance with other countries, in Europe!

The US should be sorting this out.
There is no logic in this statement

Callistemon and Fashonista- of course we all agree on this.

But how do you think they can do this

''The US should be sorting this out.''

please?!? And without involving the UK, either on its own (which is very very dangerous) or with UK and Europe?

H O W ?

Have you ever heard of the concept of M A D in the context of nuclear weapons?

“The EU’s deafening silence on Russian aggression makes war more likely”

“For the first time in a generation Europe is on the brink of war. Only strength can stop Putin now”
TOM TUGENDHAT

Interesting point Fashionista1.

The Ukraine situation has been caused in part because there are still Russian speaking peoples who identify with being Russian and do not want to become Westernised or join Nato. From Russias view if all the bordering countries join Nato, then Russia could be seriously under threat and under the thumb to Europe. The Crimea, although annexed as part of Russia, is another potential threat to Russia's Black Sea Ports. It is not a simple solution and in my view nothing really to do with us. The US should be sorting this out.

Ukraine does not want to be part of Putin's Russia.
Although not an EU country it is a European country which wants its sovereignty and freedoms. The Deputy Prime minister said they did not want to be part of a one-leader cult.

Press Release:
www.gov.uk/government/news/kremlin-plan-to-install-pro-russian-leadership-in-ukraine-exposed

Last night we watched 'Munich: The Edge of War'! The similarities of Hitler at that point and Putin now were not lost on us!

I find this far more scary than covid. It's not like a war would just be firing guns at each other. If one leader is angry enough to press the red button, then it's game over.

This is from Reuters in November last year. To believe that the UK is NOT hugely reliant on EU energy and gas, which is linked to Russian supplies, is delusional. We all know how prices have shot up recently.

''HOW MUCH GAS DOES RUSSIA SUPPLY?

Europe relies on Russia for around 35% of its natural gas. The bulk comes through pipelines including Yamal, which goes through Belarus and Poland to Germany, Nord Stream, which goes directly to Germany, and pipelines going through Ukraine.

Europe’s internal gas markets are linked through a network of interconnecting pipelines. Not all countries get supply directly from Russia, but if countries such as Germany, the biggest consumer of Russian gas, see lower flows from Russia they must replace this from elsewhere such as Norway.

That has a knock-on effect on how much gas is available from other sources for other countries, and for transit.

Gas prices in Britain have been just as volatile as those in continental Europe on any news out of Russia, even though it only typically gets around 5% of its gas from Russia. Lower overall Russian supply to Europe means less could be available from its largest suppliers, like Norway.

Europe's energy chief says European countries have enough gas to meet their needs over the winter. The issue, however, is the price they will need to pay.''

So we are direclty reliant on Russian gas and energy, but even more so, indirectly, via other European countries. If your supplies are further limited, the UK will be in deep trouble too. Not just individuals with rising bills, but industry and the economy.

Well explained Bodach, thankyou.

Thank you Bodach for your excellent post last night. I it is so great to have someone who is prepared to discuss things calmly, rather than attack, and has someone mentionned above 'pile on' without adding anything of value.

I never said that the UK is now divorced (via Brexit) to EU military ties. I have said that it has changed due to Brexit, and that it has never really been properly redefined or realigned.
It is of course not the first time that the UK has followed the USA without Europe. Many will never forgive Blair for this. Not just in Irak, but Afghanistan, and Yugoslavia before this.

As for geography, comment which was derided, it is very different to act with allies on the other side of the world, without all those around you, who were previous allies and who have been officially rejected as such by Brexit.

Acting swifltly as the UK has done, with the USA, is remarkable. But it does further isolate us from our previous allies, and it does also puts the UK in a dangerous position with regard to Russia.

As for my comments on MAD, and the fact that many of us have had huge concerns about what would happen once one or more psychopaths get involved and enraged. Will MAD always protect us? I am afraid it might not. But thank you for your intelligent and informative response.

The Cabaret was great fun - a local troupe who each year produce a local Cabaret, to take the mick of our regional features and people, politicians or otherwise.

Well done the UK ??

“Serhii Rakhmanin, a senior MP in Ukraine, said: “We are very grateful. The military supply from the UK looks like the most effective one and the most well-timed. For me personally, sadly, the German position was sorrowful. As we know Germany tells us it is a reliable partner, but does not act like this.”

Andriy Zagorodnyuk, an Oxford-educated former defence minister in Ukraine, said the country may have to resort to guerilla-style tactics if Russia invades, and this meant fast deliveries of light weaponry were crucial.

“It’s exactly what we need, the UK was very quick to move,” he said, referring to its provision of 2,000 anti-tank missile launchers and training from the British Army’s Ranger Regiment.”

I did like how Keir Starmer said how impressed he was with Ben Wallace (Defence Minister) - on top of his brief and very decisive.

Whitewavemark2
It’s obvious that your not worried about a blatant ( and ridiculous) lie being repeated over and over concerning our country. But it must be clear to you by now that a lot of posters do care very much.