Two Years of Keir Starmer. What do we think?

Two Years of Keir Starmer. What do we think? Not a lot!

rosie1959

I do agree with an article I read in the Guardian
The improvement in Labours position is not because he is doing his job much better, but because the government is doing even worse

I think that raises an interesting question, Rosie

Do people vote for a party because it's done a good job in opposition?

Or, do they vote for it because they're tired of the party in government?

Or is it the party's policies and the way they're presented?

People vote for so many different reasons that it's difficult to pinpoint any particular one, IMO.

Look, we’ve left the EU. There’s no case for rejoining, so we have to make it work. We are out and we’re staying out.” So that rules out a return to the single market or customs union under a Labour government? “Yes, it does. We’ve got to make Brexit work from the outside and not reopen old wounds.”*

that's the bit I'm having difficulty with. A return to the SM and CU would make life a lot easier for an awful lot of people, but with it comes FOM. It would seem - listening to quite a few Brexiters - that it would be totally unacceptable. to them, so I can see where the problem lies. Is that what he means by opening "old wounds"? I don't know - he hasn't been specific.

That disappointed me, but I suspect that he's still looking at the red wall seats and not frightening the horses..

I've said before that I have observed that once a party gets into government very few voters particularly care what they actually do. Even if they did, there's not a lot they can do about it until the next general election came along. So Starmer could well slide us back into the SM and CU without many people really even noticing it. nothing else makes any sense, really.

I was even more disappointed about his 'no' to nationalisation. How is he going to deal with the water and energy companies who are either doing a dreadful job, water, or making huge profits from the current energy crisis? And, dammit, even the tories have virtually renationalised the railways without anyone complaining.

As you all know, I have an alternative view of how the economy works and how much good it could do, but while Labour is stymied by the completely undeserved perception that Labour is poor at running the economy and the 'How are you going to pay for it?' question it's probably best to look conventional. Again, don't frighten the horses or give hostages to fortune.

I do agree with an article I read in the Guardian
The improvement in Labours position is not because he is doing his job much better, but because the government is doing even worse

Look, we’ve left the EU. There’s no case for rejoining, so we have to make it work. We are out and we’re staying out.” So that rules out a return to the single market or customs union under a Labour government? “Yes, it does. We’ve got to make Brexit work from the outside and not reopen old wounds.”

... that's the bit I'm having difficulty with. A return to the SM and CU would make life a lot easier for an awful lot of people, but with it comes FOM. It would seem - listening to quite a few Brexiters - that it would be totally unacceptable. to them, so I can see where the problem lies. Is that what he means by opening "old wounds"? I don't know - he hasn't been specific.

And that's the problem. How, in reality, do you make Brexit "work"? It's almost another slogan like "get Brexit done" and almost as meaningless - in that Brexit will not be "done" for quite some time to come, not in the true sense, anyway.

If he would lay out what he would do to make it work, I might be more enthusiastic. I'd certainly want to see a better, more friendly relationship with the EU. The constant anti-EU rhetoric and the posturing coming from the Tory party and its press whilst people are struggling with the ramifications of leaving are not helpful. Although I'm a Remainer, I've never thought the EU is perfect and, along with others, can see obvious and glaring faults with the way it functions, so I am trying to be realistic. But this 'cold war' with Europe / EU cannot continue if we are going to make Brexit "work".

Starmer appears to be a decent enough man - we've not seen any skeletons in his cupboard. An encouraging slogan is fine as an opening gambit, but the devil is in the detail - and we don't have any of those from him yet, so I'm far from convinced at the moment.

Starmer is consensual and seems likely to work well with other opposition parties which will be important.

Kali2

Yes, time for me to rejoin too. I am a member of the Lib Dems- but I'd be happy to be a member of both.

I didn’t realise you could be a member of two parties simultaneously - but I guess nothing to stop you.

I re-joined so I could vote in the leadership election. I saw Starmer, Lisa Nandy and Long Bailey in Manchester. Long Bailey was unimpressive. Nandy good but inexperienced. Starmer likeable, politically astute and by far the best candidate.
I admired the pro Bono work he did as a barrister, his leadership of the CPS and I’m happy with his leadership so far. He’s building a good team around him.
I like the policies. It’s curious the press line is to say Labour doesn’t gave any

I will definitely vote for the Labour party under Starmer, he is intelligent, not showy and is building an excellent team with as Whitewave has written about some excellent policies.

A bit like Blancmange.

Could not resist the insult, could you
Kali
That's not an insult; it's just an English colloquialsm.
It just means that MerylStreep thinks he's rather bland, I think.

I can see your point, MerylStreep and think perhaps he should show a bit more fire and passion, but that's probably not who he is.

I think he's steady, quietly impressive but hasn't had a chance to show us his best with everything that has been happening.

I too stopped voting Labour after Blair. I have started again now as I want to give Starmer a chance. The trouble is that I feel he is too much of a gentleman to go for Johnson’s throat when he refuses to answer a question. His deputy, now, she would not hesitate.
However, playground squabbles are not what I want either. I will continue to give Starmer my support. He doesn’t need to entertain me with a witty quip but I do need to see him as an honest person who takes his role seriously.

I’d vote for those policies as long as they don’t come with the ‘can’t do them because of the previous government’ clause.
There has been enough time for policies to be made knowing what state the country is in instead of making excuses.
I haven’t voted Labour since Tony Blair. Vanilla might be a good thing.

Ilovecheese

The policies listed by Whitewavemark2 are ones that I could support as well. How hard did you have to look to find them Whitewavemark2 ?
I would like to be able to support Labour with more enthusiasm than I currently feel.

They are dead easy to find, it is just that the media doesn’t report it.

There are loads of stuff but it never makes the DM or Sun etc.

The telegraph did actually print Starmers article about labours attitude to Ukraine and Russia which I thought excellent.

These are his words about the EU in the Guardian article

“Look, we’ve left the EU. There’s no case for rejoining, so we have to make it work. We are out and we’re staying out.” So that rules out a return to the single market or customs union under a Labour government? “Yes, it does. We’ve got to make Brexit work from the outside and not reopen old wounds.”

I suppose this could be to try to win back the "red wall" seats, as I believe they were mainly leave voting.
he could change his mind if he got into power.

Done!

Yes, time for me to rejoin too. I am a member of the Lib Dems- but I'd be happy to be a member of both.

The policies listed by Whitewavemark2 are ones that I could support as well. How hard did you have to look to find them Whitewavemark2 ?
I would like to be able to support Labour with more enthusiasm than I currently feel.

I was a solid member and worked for the Labour Party until Tony Blair came along -then I left. From then I've had no thing to inspire me to rejoin but my application for re-membership is now in.

"GagaJo" how do you know he's not corrupt. In my opinion all Politicians are liars and only tell the truth when caught out. They all give out false promises in their manifestos and never carry them out once elected. They always manage to make excuses usually blaming the previous Party for the reasons why they don't follow through with their promises. I am very loath to vote for any of them. I just wait until the country votes and put up with it because its always what used to be the "working" people that get shafted either way.

He is bit bland, but .... maybe that is what we need. Someone solid, thoughtful, apparently honest, able to grasp how the other half live, has integrity, statespersonlike etc.

Instead of someone who is a liar and a cheat and a deep embarrassment to all.

MerylStreep

kittylester

I thought he would be a good opposition leader after Corbyn but have found him uninspiring!

A bit like Blancmange.

Could not resist the insult, could you. But as said before, after what we have had with Trump and then Johnson- give me good quality blancmange anyday.

Ilovecheese- making Brexit work could very much mean what I said- not to reverse Brexit per say, but come to some form of Norway agreement, with strong reciprocal agreements based on Single Market and Customs Unions access. It will of course have to mean Freedom of Movement- which is totally fine by me and many others. Others who have seen the effect on care homes, hospitals, industry and mainly agriculture, of losing all the European workers.

I liked JC. He embodied my political belief system.

However, KS is a solid bloke. Not corrupt. Which frankly, at the moment, makes him a prince among men. I wasn't convinced I could vote Labour under KS, but I'm starting to think I can.

Other than his decisions about the anti-semitism fake news about Labour, he seems OK. I'm not making light of them, KS handled it and treated some very, very badly. But compared to the current Tory shower...

I would vote for those policies

After over 50 years membership of Labour Party I voted LibDem when Corbyn was leader, but voted Labour in Welsh elections , joined Labour again when Corbyn stood down .
I support Starmer .

I didn’t know about the dementia policy. I’ve spoken to several people over the years that bemoan the fact that they get little support when looking after someone with dementia.