Two Years of Keir Starmer. What do we think?

Whitewavemark2

“Rule of law in jeopardy, NHS under mortal threat, freedom of expression being criminalised, police apparently in Boris Johnson’s pocket, Brexit proving to be everything we predicted, Labour polling better than it has in yonks. But please, keep attacking those awful ‘centrists’.”

Go white wave ???

More payouts from Labour

“Rule of law in jeopardy, NHS under mortal threat, freedom of expression being criminalised, police apparently in Boris Johnson’s pocket, Brexit proving to be everything we predicted, Labour polling better than it has in yonks. But please, keep attacking those awful ‘centrists’.”

James Oh Brien
The most important thing to remember now is that, no matter how bad Johnson is proved to be, the people most in need of abuse from the ‘Left’ are Labour voters who explained in epic & painstaking, evidence-based detail why Jeremy Corbyn never had a hope in hell of beating him.

I think that FPTP has survived so long in this country, when all over the world other countries chose to become democracies by changing to proportional representation, is because of the hold of the media, who just love the confrontational drama of two party politics.

Politics has to become more than a branch of entertainment.

Indeed- I have voted each and every time since 1973, knowing full well my vote would go straight into the bin! Not very encouraging.

First Past the Post cheats voters out of real, meaningful representation. It favours the two major parties and concentrates politicians’ attention on the tiny minority of seats which may change hands in any given election. It allows huge swathes of the country to be ignored and silenced by a political system that is supposed to represent them.

Dinahmo

Whilst the majority of the population want PR I'm not sure about all the members of the LP. Two of my oldest friends have been members for all the time I've known them (over 40 years) and they want to see Labour in power - full stop. Under PR they could be the most important party but not be in charge since it would be necessary to negotiate with other groups.

A much-anticipated motion at the Labour conference motion proposing to embrace proportional representation (PR) for future elections has been defeated as overwhelming support from local parties met opposition from mass union votes.

The motion, calling for the next Labour government to replace first past the post with a form of PR, was submitted by more than 150 constituency Labour parties (CLPs), and was the second most popular issue for the conference.

After an inconclusive show of hands in the conference hall in Brighton, a card vote showed just under 80% of CLP votes backing the motion. But the votes from affiliates – almost entirely comprising unions – were 95% opposed. The eventual result was nearly 58% against.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/27/unions-vote-down-local-labour-parties-call-to-axe-first-past-the-post

Everyone says they wnt some form of PR, but when there was a referendum on the subject of a change, even if the change was not perfect. Hardly anyone bothered to vote, even to vote against it. So they cannot be that bothered.

I did vote in it. How I voted I really cannot remember.

Whilst the majority of the population want PR I'm not sure about all the members of the LP. Two of my oldest friends have been members for all the time I've known them (over 40 years) and they want to see Labour in power - full stop. Under PR they could be the most important party but not be in charge since it would be necessary to negotiate with other groups.

Varian I agree, but if he won’t promise it before he’s elected, he won’t be allowed to do it if Labour get in.

Keir Starmer made a huge mistake in not backing PR

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/30/keir-starmer-proportional-representation-progressive-alliance

He should have backed the views of over 80% of his constituency parties to change our voting system to proportional representation and allow the UK to become a true democracy.

There isn’t going to be a new Labour leader before the next election. We cannot continue with the current government: one of the reasons why they’re letting Johnson hang on because he has no obvious successor. Whatever anyone thinks of Keir he is our only hope and he needs to be given that chance. Look at the team of people he has around him in the shadow cabinet. Surely even Conservative voters must feel that they’ve had too long in government and need a good shake up. When MP’s like Peter Bone are being interviewed on tv because none of the others are prepared to be interviewed you know there’s a problem with the party.

I voted for him as the best candidate at the last leadership election
He’s doing ok

Is that leader with wide appeal Keir Starmer though?

Anniebach

Blair was the only Labour leader to win three consecutive general elections ,

Labours worse defeats have been with far left leaders

Annie and i often disagree, sometimes strongly. This statement though is simply factual.
People may disagree with the description of ‘far left leaders’. I admired and liked Michael Foot. I still do.

To beat the tories, we do not need another Michael Foot, we need a leader who has wider appeal. I’m in a so called red wall seat. I’ve canvassed over the last 50 years- not consistently but enough to acknowledge Annie’s view

Blair was the only Labour leader to win three consecutive general elections ,

Labours worse defeats have been with far left leaders

ps and that's why the Russians and the French resorted to Revolution {hmm). Which led to new problems.

When I spoke of coal mines, iron works etc, I was not speaking of those who are far left, I was speaking of ‘the voter’ , Labour
needs to win the votes across the country not just what were once safe Labour seats.

I voted for Corbyn as leader 'as long as he could unite the party'.
Which I realise now is next to impossible.
I know we can never go back to the days that Annie describes. And wouldn't want to.
But we must try to create some kind of social ideal strong enough to oppose the right wing. but appropriate to these times.
Which is what Blair tried to do. But things have changed. and the old traditional Tories are still clingiing on.

''Left wingers like myself just want to be sure that the NHS will remain in public hands, without more and more money being given to private providers.
Would like the welfare state to give us all a reasonable standard of living (which is good for the economy).
Would like an integrated public transport system (which is good for the environment)''

why is the above only for 'left wingers' - this is exactly what left of centre Labour voters want too. Which does not mean this is going to be achieved by wringing dry those who strive for success and bring in jobs and a sucessful economy, and taxes. Tackling tax evasion from the extremely rich and corporations is paramount for all.

"clinging to the days of coal mines, iron works, pigeon lofts, Dai caps and working mens clubs,"
That's not actually true though is it, it is just an unpleasant remark.
Left wingers like myself just want to be sure that the NHS will remain in public hands, without more and more money being given to private providers.
Would like the welfare state to give us all a reasonable standard of living (which is good for the economy).
Would like an integrated public transport system (which is good for the environment)
If Keir Starmers party wants to gain as many votes as possible, it would be better if they tried to get left wing people on board, not just make nasty comments about us. (many of whom, like myself, actually voted for him as leader)

Corbyn didn’t need any help from the conservatives to lose Labour the last election. I, along with others, found him unacceptable. Starmer has to get his act together and say he’s definitely going to deliver his policies so far without blaming the current government for his inability to do so AND for me, he has to put in place a policy which respects the rights of females.

As far as I know no one on the left of this argument has mentioned any of those things Annie so quite where they came from I have no idea. We have commented that Starmer seems to be intent on getting rid of as many members of the LP as he possibly can. We have said that the policies we support are energy and water provided by not for profit companies, a decent transport system with the railways under public control, the NHS protected from privatisation and, a living wage, with zero hours contracts only being used when the worker want them. What that has to do with mines and working men's clubs I 'm not sure.

Galaxy

Yes it's a mystery Dinahmo why people didnt enjoy being called stupid.

Only the Tory MP - no one else.