A man with integrity at last!

I understand that this was administered by civil servants. The chancellor came up with the idea, the civil service handed out the money, and when fraud was pointed out and was going tobe investigated, the civil service decided towrite it off.......... Read Daniel Hannon's article in yesterday's Telegraph 'Our problems stem from a useless civil service, but we prefer to blame ministers'

It is the Treasury civil servants responsible for the loans fiasco and the NHS/Public Health England (then named) responsible for PPE. While they are obviously funded by the Government it has always been considered on paper, at least, to keep these entities impartial and separate from the Government of the day and therefore ministerial control. We will keep blaming everything on the government alone and not these inefficient entities! It is telling that when speedy and effective vaccine rollout was needed Kate Bingham was appointed from the private sector by the Government and did a sterling job! Perhaps something similar should have happened with these loans? Leaving important initiatives like this to inefficient public servants cocooned in safe and cosy Whitehall/Treasury is often a recipe for disaster!

I am not overly concerned about who Sunak is married to, but I am seriously concerned that someone with absolutely no idea of the implications, beyond some spreadsheets, is likely to implement yet another disasterous period of austerity. His dismissal of the huge amounts of money fraudulently claimed, my money, your money, is a worrying example of how he sees it all as figures, indices, graphs, not as real money which could be put to better use. The same man that told the country that we can't afford to provide free school meals, can't afford to help out the poorest in society is the same person who dismisses with a wave of a hand an eye watering amount of stolen money. So, anyone still think he is a good chancellor, a good candidate for PM?

Some facts about UK businesses that you may or may not know.

You may recall from your school days that Britain was known as a nation of shopkeepers. We are still a nation of small businesses.

There are 5.5 million SMEs in the UK. These account for 3 out of 5 employees in the private sector and 99.9% of the business population. An SME is a company that has a turnover under £6.5 million, a balance sheet under £3.26 million and under 50 employees.

My point being that Sunak and the rest of them have absolutely no idea how this country actually works. (Nor do they have any idea how most of the country lives)

Sunak's in laws own extremely large corporations and are very wealthy. The Queen is the only woman richer than Sunak's wife.

We have had more than 10 years austerity and it looks as though we are headed for more, if Sunak gets his way. It is about time the proportion of the UK population that supports the Tories woke up to the damage that they are causing.

In case you aren't aware, I am extremely angry and have restrained myself from using stronger language.

What makes us angry (husband and I), is that vast sums have gone adrift, are not being recouped from the institutions, corrupt officials etc, but instead pensioners are being penalised left right and centre to claw back pence, as is the little man in the street, by rises in taxation, NI, having soon to pay for prescriptions, Vat on fuel and energy costs not being lowered to help. Its very clear that we are only viewed with the same disregard as battery hens - to be milked for all we're worth, but of no value as individuals.

I never rated sunak From the get-go! Married to a billionaire's daughter from a stinkingly wealthy background, what the blue blazes would he know about finances other than from the aspect of a high achieving accountancy exam sitter? Ever held down an actual job? Well it depends on whether you consider hedge fund and banking managing a real job? So it's a 'no'. Best chancellor and still most honourable politician ive come across? Gordon Browne.still helping people he's just been instrumental in persuading Amazon to stop burying all their 'returns' and to give them instead to needy families And those in dire need. bravo that man! He also IMMEDIATELY stopped plans to build a massive casino in the poorest part of Manchester saying with absolute honesty :the last thing a struggling community needs is a gambling casino! Common sense and true love of people abound

The banks were not as stringent as they would normally have been because the govt were backing the BBLs (Bounce Back Loans). If it wasn't for that backing many of the loans would not have been made.

The difference between the BBLs and the SEISS grants (self employed) was that HMRC had the individuals tax returns which they used to calculate the grants to be made, assuming that the self employed applied for them.

HMRC also had companies Corporation Tax returns (which would have been proof of a company's existence but they weren't handing out the loans. You would think someone could have thought of a way of accessing the CT returns or else demanded copies of 3 years returns before doling out the loans.

The figures are staggering

Having worked for a long time in the public sector and particularly at the onset of tax credits the instruction was always pay out check later with teams of compliance officers doing certain percentage checks. At the time it was blindingly obvious that some of the claims were questionable but we still paid out. A lot of resources were put into trying to collect overpayments mounting to millions but very little was clawed back. The scheme for covid loans was probably the same..get the money out pronto...unfortunately government staffing has been cut to the bone and there are insufficient resources to retrieve the overpayment. The number of staff required to be recruited and trained to claw back overpayments would be very costly. I agree that the government/civil service are very gung-ho with taxpayers money. I remember thinking if I still had a cash pay packet I may as well just stand outside my office and dole it out to whoever wanted it!

Really? Is this the same Lord Agnew who referred 6 Covid testing firms to the VIP route to fast track to bid for lucrative track and trace contracts? Take a look at the article on goodlawproject.org. None of them are trustworthy.

Nothing is ever new in wasting public money. When working for a government department several millions were paid to a private company to build a new a new online HR system.
It was never adequate for purpose and was scrapped after only two years. The supplier got away scot free.

Trouble is we lose those with integrity because they resign in principle

Talking of integrity.

I reckon if Tugendhat and Stuart got into the leadership and became part of the cabinet, Labour would have a massive battle on its hands.

Well done Agnew!

???

I just don't understand why even the most fundamental of checks, which would take a junior clerk 5 minutes were not done.

A very similar question was asked in the House of Lords!

No coherent answer...

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2022/01/26/the-government-is-unable-to-say-why-it-did-not-put-basic-checks-to-tackle-covid-fraud-in-place/

MaizieD

But one might expect, GG13, that the Treasury shouldn't authorise the handing out of such enormous amounts of money without giving them any guidelines?

A great many self employed people didn't get any help because they didn't fulfil the Treasury criteria for entitlement. There must have been some guidelines. So was there any guidance on company applications?

Cannot answer that one MaizieD as our SME didn’t apply for any loans , we did however make limited use of the furlough scheme during the first lock down.

Whilst I totally understand the rush to get funding out to help companies stay afloat during the covid crisis, I just don't understand why even the most fundamental of checks, which would take a junior clerk 5 minutes were not done. Yes, we are all wise with hindsight, but surely a quick check at Companies House would have been a start? Maybe some of the millions that was squandered on paying consultants from PWC to oversee the Track and Trace scheme could have been better utilised? Sunak, with his surprisingly calm attitude to this huge loss, has certainly damaged his chances. Considering the Tories are supposed to be the party of prudent finance, of running the country like a housekeeping budget, they are very cavalier about this huge amount of money, the money frittered away on dodgy PPI supplies, and the deplorable expense of the T&T. And people think a Labour government will squander taxpayers money!

But one might expect, GG13, that the Treasury shouldn't authorise the handing out of such enormous amounts of money without giving them any guidelines?

A great many self employed people didn't get any help because they didn't fulfil the Treasury criteria for entitlement. There must have been some guidelines. So was there any guidance on company applications?

MaizieD

According to the Guardian today Lord Agnew pointed out that loans had been made to 1,000 companies that weren't even trading... (I shall have to check that out as it's not a direct quote). If this is so then the banks which made the loans are at fault for not carrying out due diligence. Perhaps the banks should pay back the money they so carelessly handed out?

www.pressreader.com/uk/the-guardian-e-paper-journal/20220128/281496459673302

Absolutely MaizieD if this is true, it is the banks that are at fault.

Yes, Lord Agnew did actually say that.

Full resignation speech here:

www.ukpol.co.uk/lord-agnew-2022-resignation-statement-in-the-house-of-lords-over-coronavirus-fraud/

According to the Guardian today Lord Agnew pointed out that loans had been made to 1,000 companies that weren't even trading... (I shall have to check that out as it's not a direct quote). If this is so then the banks which made the loans are at fault for not carrying out due diligence. Perhaps the banks should pay back the money they so carelessly handed out?

www.pressreader.com/uk/the-guardian-e-paper-journal/20220128/281496459673302

I would think there've been many who've taken advantage this past couple of years----not just the government ! Anyone au-fait in finances will have had a field day, even though Boris and Co. don't lead by example.!

ug yes I have read that the Tories are disappointed with him. But he is very young and green so probably has a lot to learn.

I think the Government acted quickly, done what they had to at the beginning of the pandemic to keep businesses afloat and people with a continuous income.

The fact that some unscrupulous people took full advantage deserves looking into.