Sadly few of us are winners!

Glad your son is helping out Jetty although we like to help our children as much as possible sometimes they have to contribute more especially if they have a reasonable salary

Isn't it ridiculous that those on a decent wage are struggling. My DD is in a government job and is the same.
Jetty your son sounds like a lovely caring person.

rosie1959

That sounds tough Jetty especially as you work full time in accounts which should provide a decent salary but often doesn’t . Some employers can be very mean with salary for a qualified position.
As your son lives with you and earns more than you perhaps he should be able to give you more just while things are particularly expensive

I am actually on a good rate for the job i do, as i am not qualified - ive just done the job for years. i don't have far to travel, and i do get some nice perks (such as using a co car when mine was out of action), I had a conversation with my son yesterday and he has offered to pay more to pay towards the fuel bills. to be fair to him, he probably would give me more if i asked but saving is the whole point of living at home isnt it? Plus he has enough on his plate at the moment as his grandad isnt well and he helps him a lot. My husband died when the kids were little and so there is no second income coming into the house and he was an only child so his dads care has fallen on the kids shoulders, as he wont accept much help from me. At least i dont have to choose between heating and eating like many do- yet, im quite good at yellow sticker and savvy food shopping, and i cook from scratch as much as i can which i started when the kids were little, so its not as much of a shock to me it may be to some, and i dont qualify for UC.

rosie1959

varian

Coastpath posted-

"Perhaps a major reason is the richest people have power - power to own the media and power to donate millions of pounds to the Conservative party."

I agree that these factors are very important but the deciding factor is the UK's undemocratic first past the post voting system which favours the conservative party.

The present appalling government was comprehensively rejected by the majority of those who voted in 2019 and yet got a "landslide" eighty seat majority - meaning they could do whatever they liked, against the wishes of the people for up to five years.

Labour had a landslide election with Tony Blair was this not under TFTP system

Yes indeed rosie. This was the result in 1997-

Popular vote Parliamentary seats
Labour 43.2% 63.4%
Conservative 30.7% 25.0%
Liberal Democrat 16.8% 7.0%

Labour's 1997 "landslide" was also based on a minority of votes because of the distortion of FPTP.

If we had a democratic PR voting system the 1997 election might well have resulted in a Labour/LibDem coalition and the UK might never have got involved in the Iraq war which the LibDems strongly opposed.

That sounds tough Jetty especially as you work full time in accounts which should provide a decent salary but often doesn’t . Some employers can be very mean with salary for a qualified position.
As your son lives with you and earns more than you perhaps he should be able to give you more just while things are particularly expensive

Great posts MaisieD.

Jetty, that is just awful and so many like you.
Its very demoralising to work hard and not make ends meet.
Are you sure you're not entitled to top up with UC.

Jetty, really sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, this government’s policies have moved many working people into poverty. The ‘poor’ in this country today are not just those on benefits (although those on benefits don’t deserve to be poor) - they are working people, many doing several jobs to make ends meet. They are also those on small pensions who have been careful with money for many years, accumulating small savings - all of which puts them just out of the range for extra help. Apparently, after April, millions of UK citizens will be in ‘energy poverty’ - meaning that more than 10% of household income goes on energy costs. Nevertheless, the posts on this thread actually give me hope. It’s clear that many of you care for others who are struggling - perhaps there really is such a thing as society! Will the GN movement be enough to elicit change at the next election???

That’s so little left to buy food when you work full time in accounts. I’m assuming it’s not possible for you to find a better paid job in your line?

Germanshepherdsmum

That’s very sad jetty. May I ask what work and hours you do?

I work in accounts (so i have plenty of experience managing my money) and do a 40 hour week. i also had a second job as a barmaid but had to give it up due to health issues - that money helped a bit to relieve the pressure. now it looks like i need to find a second job, just to live, especially when my son leaves home.

CvD66

MaizieD Thank you for your informative posts on this thread. Your Metro quote has been translated into a cartoon featuring Murdoch in front of the plate of 19 biscuits, a worker with just one being told by Murdoch that the third person, a refugee, is after his biscuits. Great example of the influence of Murdoch to those who sadly will listen! You can possible see here:https://twitter.com/developerangst/status/1459989596192882690?s=20&t=zAVMTZ92yRQMz8ofQREn2w

That's the one I was looking for, Coastpath. My search skills are not very good

Thanks for the link. I'll save the image.

That’s very sad jetty. May I ask what work and hours you do?

Blair’s landslide doesn’t count because it was (New) Labour rosie?

I have just had a payrise, and even without the increases in NI, i have worked out i have just under £100 a month to buy food and any other items i will need during the month. nothing for big ticket items that may break and need replacing. i am lucky my son lives at home and pays me some money but with the rises we are expecting it wont last long - it currently pays for food and travel to work. the last thing i want to do is ask him for money even if he does earn more than me. I want him to be able to get on the housing ladder and he cant if he pays me more.

varian

Coastpath posted-

"Perhaps a major reason is the richest people have power - power to own the media and power to donate millions of pounds to the Conservative party."

I agree that these factors are very important but the deciding factor is the UK's undemocratic first past the post voting system which favours the conservative party.

The present appalling government was comprehensively rejected by the majority of those who voted in 2019 and yet got a "landslide" eighty seat majority - meaning they could do whatever they liked, against the wishes of the people for up to five years.

Labour had a landslide election with Tony Blair was this not under TFTP system

Coastpath posted-

"Perhaps a major reason is the richest people have power - power to own the media and power to donate millions of pounds to the Conservative party."

I agree that these factors are very important but the deciding factor is the UK's undemocratic first past the post voting system which favours the conservative party.

The present appalling government was comprehensively rejected by the majority of those who voted in 2019 and yet got a "landslide" eighty seat majority - meaning they could do whatever they liked, against the wishes of the people for up to five years.

MaizieD Thank you for your informative posts on this thread. Your Metro quote has been translated into a cartoon featuring Murdoch in front of the plate of 19 biscuits, a worker with just one being told by Murdoch that the third person, a refugee, is after his biscuits. Great example of the influence of Murdoch to those who sadly will listen! You can possible see here:https://twitter.com/developerangst/status/1459989596192882690?s=20&t=zAVMTZ92yRQMz8ofQREn2w

I commend Dicken's post at 10.26. Putting to bed the 'capital flight' myth.

Actually, I'd commend a number of posts on this thread.

People can be so nice [grin}

I agree Coastpath.

That’s brilliant MaizieD A very powerful illustration.

When Thatcher reduced the income tax rates, ostensibly to encourage people to stay in the country and work harder, William Rees Mogg, then editor of The Times wrote an editorial. In this he thanked her for her actions but said he and his friends wouldn't be working any harder but just sitting back and reaping the benefits.

???

LizzieDrip

Wow! Thanks MaizieD - what a powerful, informative and intelligent post.

I cribbed it from Adam Smith . Just updated it by a couple of hundred years...

He knew a thing or two about economics and human behaviour.

Wow! Thanks MaizieD - what a powerful, informative and intelligent post.

I can't find an image for this, but here is a verbal explanation.

It's portrayed as being a commentary on attitudes to immigration, but it could equally well work as a commentary on a wealthy person and two poor people competing for scarce resources.

It's not, IMO, a joke...

metro.co.uk/2016/08/21/a-banker-a-worker-and-an-immigrant-cookie-joke-is-resonating-with-facebook-users-6081944/

Maisie, you can never take a persons ability or drive away to earn more, unless you have communism and that doesn’t work, you still have the hierarchy there

I quite agree. There is nothing wrong with that. That is partly why communism as we understand it failed. It took the ability to think and act for themselves away from people and ignored the diversity of human nature. We need a system which recognises that people are different, but all people have a value. Where people are rewarded for their energy, imagination and ability to make things happen, but where it is recognised that without the people who work for them to implement their ideas and make their product nothing would be achieved by them.

Life isn’t fair, the rich, know the accountants to use and can afford to, they syphon money to make even more, money makes money.

That is because our system is set up to work like that. It's not a question of 'life' not being fair, it's the system that is unfair. Money works on two levels. On one level it has a transactional value, it's used to buy things or to create the things we buy, but on the other level it is used to buy power. It buys the power for those with wealth to skew the system in their favour. Why do you think rich people donate huge sums to the tory party? Because they know the party will favour them and increase their ability to accumulate more wealth.

f you over tax, the people that make the big bucks and provide work will move elsewhere, move there money elsewhere, no jobs, no economy.

Capital flight already happens. Not because of taxation but because in our global economy it is more profitable for someone to take their production facilities to somewhere where labour costs are cheaper. To exploit other people in systems where there is less regard paid to the health, safety and wellbeing of the people who work for them. Where workers are poorer and less likely to demand, or have the power to demand, better conditions and a better standard of life.

Wealth is also squirreled away in tax havens, safe from taxation. Tax havens are the product of a system skewed towards the wealthy because they are able to skew the system because of their wealth. It's also a circle. Is it a desirable one?

It’s a circle. We rely on people buying and needing things.

But the people who set up the production of 'things' also have needs. They need good infrastructure, they need a healthy work force, they need an educated workforce. They need the country to be defended against foreign aggression. When you look at the history of our industrialised nation you can see that it gradually dawned on them that it was no benefit to them to keep the greater part of the population in poverty, ill health and ignorance. But, at the same time, you also see the 'workers' demanding that they have a share of the wealth that they are creating and that poverty, ill health and ignorance shouldn't be their lot it life. They wanted some 'agency', too. so we get a tension between the needs of two sections of society, but a tension in which the wealthy mostly have the upper hand because they have the power given by their wealth.

There is a bigger divide now than ever. A lot of wealthy do make substantial donations to people and charities, but most want to keep it in the family.

I find that somewhat hypocritical. A sticking plaster on the ills they cause by concentrating wealth in their hands.

When Wall Street collapsed people jumped out if windows, rather than live poor, they have this dread of losing their wealth or their offspring not getting it.

If you live by the sword you die by the sword. Make your money by speculating in an artificial 'market' and you have to accept the fact that it could all collapse. Like it very nearly did in the global financial crisis, which was only averted by government intervention. Ironically, in the UK, by the intervention of a Labour government, the bogeyman of the wealthy...