Labour and Lib-Dems sign a non-aggression pact

We could also talk about the 2019 GE, Gsm. Had it depended on a binary result, Johnson or not Johnson, or, tories or not tories, then the 'nots' would have won by a far more handsome margin than that of the EU referendum; 57% to 43%, to be more or less precise.

The First Past the Post it totally undemocratic. When you can vote every single time, for your whole life, knowing your vote will go straight in the bin because of where you live- it is so so very wrong.

Look at every single poll- Labour is ahead of Tories but not by very far- add Lib Dems and Greens- and they win the vast majority all around the UK.

varian

Democracy = rule by the majority, not rule by the minority, which results from the obscenely undemocratic FPTP electoral system.

The only two undemocratic countries in Europe are the UK and Belarus.

If tactical voting and electoral pacts are the way towards electoral reform, changing our electoral system to Proportional representation, that is the way we must go.

You can't see but I'm cheering!

kittylester

Germanshepherdsmum

'The vast majority of people'. Where is your evidence for that statement? And I'm not talking about an opinion poll because we all know how they can be rigged.

Btw no-one is asking you to vote for the Conservatives 'at the moment'. The next GE is in 2024.

Good post!

DaisyAnne, I have thought this through! Do you recall all the other 'coalition' governments we have had.

Have you? You certainly haven't read my post or you would see there wouldn't be a coalition. Never mind, other people do get it and more will.

Democracy = rule by the majority, not rule by the minority, which results from the obscenely undemocratic FPTP electoral system.

The only two undemocratic countries in Europe are the UK and Belarus.

If tactical voting and electoral pacts are the way towards electoral reform, changing our electoral system to Proportional representation, that is the way we must go.

We are not talking about ONE Poll, but Poll after Poll, after Poll. It is very clear that if opposition parties work together, they add up to vastly more numbers than the Tories. The Tories only got such a big majority due to First Past the Post. They will NOT if opposition Parties work together. Simple, really.

Germanshepherdsmum

'The vast majority of people'. Where is your evidence for that statement? And I'm not talking about an opinion poll because we all know how they can be rigged.

Btw no-one is asking you to vote for the Conservatives 'at the moment'. The next GE is in 2024.

Good post!

DaisyAnne, I have thought this through! Do you recall all the other 'coalition' governments we have had.

Germanshepherdsmum

'The vast majority of people'. Where is your evidence for that statement? And I'm not talking about an opinion poll because we all know how they can be rigged.

Btw no-one is asking you to vote for the Conservatives 'at the moment'. The next GE is in 2024.

2024, but could be earlier. So it is good to see opposition parties getting organised and making clever alliances.

As for the evidence- you will not accept it even if I provide it.

growstuff

Germanshepherdsmum

Wilson was a very dangerous man so far as our national security was concerned.

He's dead and we survived, so I can't say that bothers me unduly. Other PMs have been far more "dangerous" in the context of national security.

Like Johnson 100%!

Germanshepherdsmum

Wilson was a very dangerous man so far as our national security was concerned.

Why?

Germanshepherdsmum

Wilson was a very dangerous man so far as our national security was concerned.

He's dead and we survived, so I can't say that bothers me unduly. Other PMs have been far more "dangerous" in the context of national security.

I'm not sure you have thought this through kittylister.

If we look at the Welsh Government, we can see Labour got exactly 50% of the seats. If they went forward with just their 50% it would mean they could govern. However, it would be difficult to bring forward and pass new legislation.

They have made an agreement with Plaid Cymru. They have looked at the bills most important to each party and then agreed which of them the Welsh Labour Government will bring forward. Having agreed Plaid will support Labour and vote for these bills. This is not a coalition, just an agreement.

Labour could win the next election but they could win it without a commanding majority. They could then make a similar agreement with the Lib Dems and the Greens, both Parties who have some aims in common with them. They would then look at each parties list of most important legislation and agree on a list they could work through. The smaller parties would agree to back Labour on these votes. They would not be in a coalition; the smaller parties would not have positions in the government but the parties in the agreement could move things forward.

There are reasons why centrists voters of all parties could see this as a way forward. They could negotiate with Labour and ensure the flavour of government was seasoned with their aims. Such an agreement is likely to leave out far-left legislation, at least for one Parliament. This could be good for all those parties and, in my view the country. What we cannot say is how long this could continue. Could it be taken into the following Parliament, for example?

I'm not sure if this helps. One other thing. For every one of you who would vote Tory if there was only Tory or Labour, there will be someone who will only vote Labour if the offer was the same. The parties on the left who want to work in common know this, which is why each of them will put more money into the most winnable seats. The Tories would have to fund more seats because they would be fighting against two or three parties. Not really "silly" at all.

Wilson was a very dangerous man so far as our national security was concerned.

It's been said that Wilson's northern accent was put on.

MaizieD

Callistemon21

MaizieD

And if we're worried about people's accents, I seem to recall that Harold Wilson had a Lancashire accent. Didn't seem to stop him achieving anything...

Sharp intake of breath!!

Harold Wilson was from Yorkshire (Cowlersley) , won a scholarship to grammar school in Huddersfield, then on to Oxford University.

He still had his Yorkshire accent.

I knew I should have checked that

And to think that I lived in Yorkshire for 14 years ?

Harold Wilson went to the sixth form at Wirral Grammar School in Bebington, Wirral, and was MP for Huyton, which was then in Lancashire, so I guess you're forgiven. He only lived in Yorkshire for the first 16 years of his life.

'The vast majority of people'. Where is your evidence for that statement? And I'm not talking about an opinion poll because we all know how they can be rigged.

Btw no-one is asking you to vote for the Conservatives 'at the moment'. The next GE is in 2024.

In view of the First Past the Post system- it is not a daft idea at all. The vast majority of people currently want to vote down the dreadful Tories- and having a pact to ensure they do, makes every sense.

I could not vote Tory at the moment (well never, really).

It's a daft idea. I might vote Liberal (or poss Green)but never Labour so if we got only a Labour alternative, I'd vote Tory.

even worse
No excuse!

My Dad's favourite politician ever, I think.
And the Queen's.

Callistemon21

MaizieD

And if we're worried about people's accents, I seem to recall that Harold Wilson had a Lancashire accent. Didn't seem to stop him achieving anything...

Sharp intake of breath!!

Harold Wilson was from Yorkshire (Cowlersley) , won a scholarship to grammar school in Huddersfield, then on to Oxford University.

He still had his Yorkshire accent.

I knew I should have checked that

And to think that I lived in Yorkshire for 14 years ?

Many comments on here seem to show great insecurity. Jibes against accents, education, hair, etc. It's as if we had gone back to the 50s and the education levels and knowledge some in our parents generation had - or rather didn't have - that did make them very insecure.

Is this the "spirit of Gransnet" we see quoted? Probably more to the point, are these people okay?

Maudi

17:03Curlywhirly

GillT57

Imagine Angela on the world stage perhaps she is hoping to wow them with her hair extensions but when she opens her mouth we'd be sunk ?

You can put all the smiley faces on your post, but it is still nasty and bitchy.

I agree Gill57 I wonder if Angela Rayner spoke with a posh (a la Rees-Mogg) accent, would she be deemed more suitable to speak on the world stage? Me thinks snobbery is at play here.

No just a bit of intelligence would help.

Well she talks more sensibly and intelligently than Johnson for sure. I find it excruciating listening to Johnson, so many ums, ahhs and so much obfuscation, he can't seem to string a sentence together.

17:03Curlywhirly

GillT57

Imagine Angela on the world stage perhaps she is hoping to wow them with her hair extensions but when she opens her mouth we'd be sunk ?

You can put all the smiley faces on your post, but it is still nasty and bitchy.

I agree Gill57 I wonder if Angela Rayner spoke with a posh (a la Rees-Mogg) accent, would she be deemed more suitable to speak on the world stage? Me thinks snobbery is at play here.

No just a bit of intelligence would help.

15:44GillT57

Imagine Angela on the world stage perhaps she is hoping to wow them with her hair extensions but when she opens her mouth we'd be sunk ?

You can put all the smiley faces on your post, but it is still nasty and bitchy.

It was meant to be ? obviously you are a fan.