Lifting all Covid resrictions- how do you feel about it?

Makaton (or other sign systems) also support language development in typically developing children as well. My youngest was signing ‘more’ in the cake aisle at the supermarket long before he could say it.

Josieann

I'm going to London at the weekend. I will wear my mask on the tube.

And yet, since tubes have been used in London and many other cities worldwide, in general people are living longer. I suggest that this is the case because minor respiratory diseases are not a major cause of human deaths, have always been something we have had to deal with throughout our lives, and always will be. In the long term (the really long term), those who could not deal with minor respiratory diseases did not survive. Thankfully we now have many other ways of treating people who don't deal well with the constant virological battle that we all have to fight all our lives. This is good.

But I still don't think it's reasonable to want healthy people to wear face masks to protect themselves or others from such viruses.

I don't know if this is a good analogy, and people can tear it to bits if they like (with evidence, natch), but I've heard recently that infant exposure to peanuts (not the actual nuts, obviously, but peanut butter for example) actually reduces the likelihood of peanut allergy developing.

Infant exposure at the appropriate time, obviously, not when they are being totally milk fed.

Learning Makaton (or other sign system) isn’t done as a lesson. It’s no more of a chore than learning language (less of a chore as it’s easier and can be used earlier than speech for every child).

Although..... what if a breast-feeding mum eats peanut butter sandwiches? I wonder if that would work too?

Nezumi65

Learning Makaton (or other sign system) isn’t done as a lesson. It’s no more of a chore than learning language (less of a chore as it’s easier and can be used earlier than speech for every child).

Yes. My DD used it a lot with her kids before they could talk,

It’s okay we get it Baggs. You’re happy to pass on covid to anyone around you without knowing whether they are at risk or not. That’s fine. I’m not.

Well, we are now hurtling towards normal circumstances, whether we like it or not.
Nobody is for one minute suggesting we all scurry around like timid mice, covered from head to toe in ppe.
Just that in situations where people are in close proximity that it would be prudent to cover up for a short time.

Baggs

Although..... what if a breast-feeding mum eats peanut butter sandwiches? I wonder if that would work too?

All our GC were introduced to peanut butter at an early age. Another firm favourite was honey, which we found out afterwards apparently under one’s shouldn’t have.

Dickens

I don't quite know how to phrase or explain this but I'll try.

After any major national or international event - war, famine, earthquake, flooding, etc - we try to rebuild as quickly as possible to get back to normal. But it's never quite the same 'normal' because these events often reveal things... weaknesses in the way society is structured both physically and politically. For example, after the second world war, we started to build a better world for the impoverished - housing, welfare and, of course, the creation of the NHS. Major flooding often reveals the weaknesses in our flood defence infrastructure... we built the Thames Barrier to prevent a repeat of the 1953 devastation. Earthquakes reveal the flaws in building construction which change the way engineers design such buildings.

The pandemic has shown us that some people can effectively work from home - saving both time and energy spent on gridlocked motorways or in overcrowded trains... easing the notorious "rush hour" misery (not to mention the pollution). The wearing of masks (the correct masks and the correct way of wearing them) has indicated that in CERTAIN environments they help to stop the spread of highly infectious viruses / bacteria. How many working days, pre-pandemic were lost to people being off sick with colds and Flu? There was a time when the great British stiff upper lip demanded that we just 'carry on' and that's what we did, until people got pissed off with constantly being bombarded with colds, chest infections, etc, etc, and the culture changed, and people demanded that you stay home for a day or two when in the 'incubation' period of your infection.

We do have to get back to leading a normal life again - as a CEV individual I've been attempting to do just that, right from the beginning. Taking advantage of 'quiet' periods in supermarkets was something I did early in the isolation period. Had people coming into my home to conduct business meetings - masked and distanced - but still working (and paying tax).

What I'm inarticulately trying to say is that we all want to get back to normality again - but why does it have to be the 'old' normal? We evolve and change all the time, hopefully creating a better society (ha!), maybe doing things differently because we've learned something about ourselves individually and collectively.

Why can't we have a measured, thoughtful and inclusive re-appraisal of the way we live - and will have to live with the virus? If wearing masks in crowded places in which others have no choice but to occupy helps prevent the spread of the virus - also colds and Flu and possibly other infections, why is it not possible to embrace this as part of the new normal? Even the vulnerable want a return to normal life - they are part of society, they also work, shop, spend their money and help to keep the economy alive.

I appreciate others will completely disagree with me - but please don't tell me "wear a mask if you're scared" because I'm not, and because it doesn't work like that.

There have been various threads lately on GN and MN and reading through some of the opinions expressed towards CEV people in particular makes me shudder. Some contributors saw themselves as having had to make sacrifices to protect CEV people and no matter how many times it’s pointed out that the lockdowns and other measures were to protect the NHS, the attitude prevails. There have been suggestions of malingering, hypochondriasis, ‘hiding’ behind the CEV label and ‘enjoying’ lockdown. Any suggestion that people might want to protect others after restrictions are lifted, are generally met with scorn - ‘I’ve worn my last mask’ and ‘I’m never testing again’ - and yes, ‘you wear a mask because I’m not’.

I’m struck by the lack of understanding of what being CEV actually means - only those who actually do have serious underlying conditions, or those who care for them appear to have any knowledge at all of what it can mean and what Covid has meant for those who need to shield. ‘What did CEV people do before Covid ?’ seems to be trotted out as a valid argument for dismissing any fear expressed at the lifting of restrictions.

From the point of view of someone who is CEV, I didn’t have the option to shop at quiet times and try to find a bit of normality during lockdowns. The advice was to shield - and despite doing so I still caught it after my partner was admitted to hospital, caught it there and brought it home. It was the worst experience of my life and I have no wish to repeat it.

So for myself, I can’t wait for restrictions to end and for society to get back to whatever new normal we can manage. I really feel for those people who, during the pandemic, were vulnerable, not from health issues, but those struggling to make ends meet, business owners watching years of hard work wiped out, folk in care homes unable to see their loved ones. All of them matter. But tempered with this is two years of living in fear of Covid, and the fear that comes with the thought of what might happen once we have no option but to get back out there and face it. It would be nice, @Dickens, to think that we could be thoughtful and inclusive of all in the way forward once restrictions end, but I fear it’s not going to happen if some of the opinions on these threads are any predictor of wider society.

Nurseries etc are still going to be a hot bed of respiratory viruses. For starters kids (& staff) are not wearing masks in the rooms and nor are they at primary school. That’s why an increasing number of children are getting repeated covid infections (with some getting quite poorly).

It’s really a very different issue than wearing a mask on public transport, in supermarkets, hospitals or theatres etc.

I know at least 3 nursery staff who are unvaccinated.
I also have an anti vax friend who works at a college, supporting students with disabilities.

GrannyGravy13

Baggs

Although..... what if a breast-feeding mum eats peanut butter sandwiches? I wonder if that would work too?

All our GC were introduced to peanut butter at an early age. Another firm favourite was honey, which we found out afterwards apparently under one’s shouldn’t have.

What on earth does a nut allergy have to do with an infectious disease?

Baggs

Josieann

I'm going to London at the weekend. I will wear my mask on the tube.

And yet, since tubes have been used in London and many other cities worldwide, in general people are living longer. I suggest that this is the case because minor respiratory diseases are not a major cause of human deaths, have always been something we have had to deal with throughout our lives, and always will be. In the long term (the really long term), those who could not deal with minor respiratory diseases did not survive. Thankfully we now have many other ways of treating people who don't deal well with the constant virological battle that we all have to fight all our lives. This is good.

But I still don't think it's reasonable to want healthy people to wear face masks to protect themselves or others from such viruses.

I don't know if this is a good analogy, and people can tear it to bits if they like (with evidence, natch), but I've heard recently that infant exposure to peanuts (not the actual nuts, obviously, but peanut butter for example) actually reduces the likelihood of peanut allergy developing.

* but I've heard recently that infant exposure to peanuts (not the actual nuts, obviously, but peanut butter for example) actually reduces the likelihood of peanut allergy developing.*

Given that Covid is multi systemic, finds peoples’ weak spots and then attacks them, it’s risky to deliberately expose them - as we’re about to find out, come Thursday.

Early on in the pandemic - when there were queues to get into supermarkets and one way systems etc I wore a mask (before they were compulsory). I wore one because I had read the research, understood they protected others and recognised that the nature of my life meant I was in contact with a lot more people than was typical at the time. This was pre vaccination so I was thinking about my risk to everyone, not just those who were CEV

Anyway I was minding my own business I. sainsburys when suddenly a woman started SCREAMING at me - that I was ‘part of the problem’ with my ridiculous mask.

It was bizarre. And why I really object to the crap that comes out of Johnson’s mouth about ‘confidence’ and ‘reducing anxiety’. He’s stoking up that sort of anger. I’m not a remotely anxious person - never have been. I’ve worked on the front line throughout the pandemic. I just would like now to protect myself and others, including those around me who are vulnerable.

Nezumi65

Nurseries etc are still going to be a hot bed of respiratory viruses. For starters kids (& staff) are not wearing masks in the rooms and nor are they at primary school. That’s why an increasing number of children are getting repeated covid infections (with some getting quite poorly).

It’s really a very different issue than wearing a mask on public transport, in supermarkets, hospitals or theatres etc.

My granddaughter has been in nursery for the whole of Covid they had very few cases of Covid in the children my granddaughter picked it up from her mum
You cannot put nursery children in masks they would not be effective

I didn’t say they should put nursery children in masks. My point was that they will still be getting plenty of exposure to respiratory viruses.

And you can't make the staff have the vaccination.

Nezumi65

I didn’t say they should put nursery children in masks. My point was that they will still be getting plenty of exposure to respiratory viruses.

As they always have done

I’m sorry Rosie I’m not understanding your point.

I was responding to the concern that young children aren’t getting exposure to respiratory viruses. They are.

My apologies I probably read to quickly

Excellent post Pammie. You have summed up exactly how I feel.

We have anecdotes from people who are either vulnerable or family have survived Covid, which is positive news. However, that gives the impression to the uninformed, that it is not as bad as we are making out.

At the beginning of the Pandemic, I received a phone called to say I was not to leave the house as I was now classed as CEV on three different counts. My consultant told me I would not survive Covid and ICU would not be an option.
Three months into the Pandemic, I became very unwell and because it was too risky for me to go to hospital, I had to inject myself at home with biologics, which made me immunocompromised and in even greater danger, especially as research has shown that for many of the immunosuppressed, the vaccines are only 40% effective.

Pammie you quite correct about the negativity directed towards those who are CEV. At best I feel like a nuisance and a burden on society, at worst, a pariah.

I am not frightened as some have accused us of being, but I am bl**dy angry at some the the attitudes on here.
I too want some normality, but in a measured, balanced and safe way.

Walk a day in our shoes. You wouldnt be so blasé and dismissive then.

Nezumi65

I’m not sure what you are trying to show looking at only 2022 Volver

Japan has had a total of 22k covid deaths since the pandemic has started.

Yes, sorry Nezumi65, I had to pop out before I got everything posted.

Its trite to point at Japan and imply that they wear masks so therefore their deaths are lower than ours. Their society is completely different to ours, their diet is significantly different, the incidence of obesity is lower.

It is relevant to look at 2022 because that equates approximately to the rise of the Omicron variant, so potentially any benefits that Japan were seeing previously could have been eroded by the arrival of the more transmissible Omicron.

Also, the death rate from covid is now slightly less than twice the death rate from flu, not 10 times. We are of course, much more likely to catch covid at the moment

Regarding wearing masks.

Like most of you, I have been wearing my mask diligently and might continue to do so. However its unfair and unpleasant to tell people who don't want to do that any more that they are happy to infect and kill children. Very unfair, especially from people who are complaining that they are being called names and marginalised for deciding to wear their masks.

Covering your face during interactions with other people is not "normal". New Zealand is talking about keeping their mask mandate this winter to minimise the impact of flu; well while I agree that some things will change away from our old normal, and its right that they should, wearing masks is not a zero-sum game.

I recently attended a hospital appointment for a check up related to a lung condition I have, not a progressive one thankfully. I did the 6 minute walk test that I'm sure many of you have also done, and my performance was much reduced from before. The nurse reckoned it was due to being unfit (too much lockdown laziness!) but also told me that they have a "multiplying factor" that they use now because you have to do the test in a mask; people find it difficult to perform at the same level as before because people are not able to breathe in the same amount of oxygen when they are wearing a mask.

I'm not a mask denier, I've got no time for the selfish who try to pretend that they are somehow special and don't want to wear a mask, but I also don't have any time for people who try to pretend its a "little thing" to ask people. Its not a little thing. Its not "normal". I agree with Baggs.

Who has said anything about killing children?
Have I missed that?