Lifting all Covid resrictions- how do you feel about it?

Nezumi65

So basically just giving me the freedom to infect others Pammie1. Yay. Party on.

Looking at the restrictions that are ending, it would seem so. There is a perception that Covid is behind us and giving people the freedom to choose which precautions they will and will not take, will inevitably come down to who can afford to take time off work and who cannot - thereby creating more inequality and division, and ultimately blame if things go awry. Only time will tell what the result will be - especially as scientists are warning that the next variant of Covid isn’t necessarily going to be as mild as Omicron. As you say, party on dude.

So basically just giving me the freedom to infect others Pammie1. Yay. Party on.

It was about 800 a week.

LtEve

growstuff

LtEve

2017-18 was the bad flu year, mainly due to an ineffective vaccine. It's quite difficult to find the figures now but from memory it hit 300 deaths per day. I remember it well as I was working as a paramedic and it was horrific, massive delays outside hospitals and regular 14 hour shifts.

Here's the link to the statistics. I expect there are some contact details, so you can tell them they're wrong.

www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/influenzadeathsin20182019and2020

Your link refers to 2018 not 2017-2018 which was much worse.

It was still much lower than Covid deaths:

fullfact.org/online/october-2020-flu-covid-pandemic/

www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-don-t-scrap-free-covid-testing-and-isolation

116,000 + have signed since yesterday.

Nezumi65

Why do people think flu and covid are the same? They’re very different in impact and covid is far more dangerous to a wider range of people.

And yes what restrictions are impacting on people’s freedoms right now? What will you be able to do on Thursday that you can’t do now? I must have asked that 15 times on this thread and haven’t had a reply yet.

From Thursday :

Guidance for staff and students in most education and childcare settings for twice weekly asymptomatic testing will be removed. Adults and children who test positive will still be advised to self-isolate but the legal requirement will be removed, meaning that financial circumstances will dictate whether they choose to do so or not. Vaccinated contacts of positive cases will no longer be asked to test for seven days and there will no longer be a legal requirement for close contacts who are not vaccinated to self-isolate. Test and trace will stop.

From 24 March Covid provisions attached to statutory sick pay will be removed, meaning that SSP will go back to being payable from day 4 of sickness and not day one.

From 1 April free universal testing will be scrapped and will instead be targeted at the most vulnerable - Government expects the cost of a box of seven lateral flow tests to settle at around £20

growstuff

LtEve

2017-18 was the bad flu year, mainly due to an ineffective vaccine. It's quite difficult to find the figures now but from memory it hit 300 deaths per day. I remember it well as I was working as a paramedic and it was horrific, massive delays outside hospitals and regular 14 hour shifts.

Here's the link to the statistics. I expect there are some contact details, so you can tell them they're wrong.

www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/influenzadeathsin20182019and2020

Your link refers to 2018 not 2017-2018 which was much worse.

Nezumi65

I've just seen Johnson on PMQs saying that unpaid carers will not be entitled to free lateral flow tests (unclear so far whether people like my son who requires 24 hour 2:1 from paid carers will get any for his team). That's going to put some people in a very difficult position.

I know this government treats carers with contempt but surely even they can see there's an economic argument for supporting unpaid carers when the social care system is on its knees.

In Scotland, two additional payments of carers allowance have been authorised to be paid to carers - one at Christmas I believe, and another due in spring. This is the Scottish government recognising and thanking carers for their efforts under increased strain caused by Covid. Does Westminster intend to follow their lead for carers in England ? Nope - so it doesn’t surprise me that they won’t supply free lateral flow tests. It doesn’t make any sense to me, to deny this small concession to carers - without it, by the very nature of caring duties, they will undoubtedly be spreading the virus to the most vulnerable. All so unnecessary.

I really don’t feel that mask wearing is the issue here. For me the major issues are the abolition of free tests because people won’t then test, and if they don’t test they won’t necessarily know if they’re infected. Additionally the abolition of the legal requirement to isolate if a person does test positive, and so an infected person is free to circulate in society infecting merrily on his/her way. Lastly I think the decision to no longer supply tests to care homes is wrong. Carers should be able to continue testing so that their residents are not exposed.

I've just seen Johnson on PMQs saying that unpaid carers will not be entitled to free lateral flow tests (unclear so far whether people like my son who requires 24 hour 2:1 from paid carers will get any for his team). That's going to put some people in a very difficult position.

I know this government treats carers with contempt but surely even they can see there's an economic argument for supporting unpaid carers when the social care system is on its knees.

Japan has just started a booster campaign (at beginning of this month) because they initially wanted 8 months between the initial shots and booster.

I suspect their case numbers will start to go down again now the boosters are being administered.

Ours if course will be wearing off soon.

@Pammie1

The UK economy could well afford to support disabled and other vulnerable groups in much better ways than we do now, there just isn’t the political will to do it - much easier to brand these people as work shy and fraudsters in order to make it palatable to the general public when the support rug is pulled out from under them.

This.

The next round of austerity will most certainly be targeted at those with disabilities and as you say, dressed up as "helping those most in need" - which expression is, to my mind, a prime example of 'political correctness', though not an example most would think of in those terms. Another example of PC is "missed opportunities" - a politically polite way of saying that a body of people are just plain incompetent... and the DWP has certainly been responsible for a lot of 'missed opportunities'... as you are probably only too aware...

Ironically - some of those who champion the government's economic policies will, themselves, also become its victims. And they will then inhabit this nether world that you so aptly describe and discover for themselves that its reality is quite different to that portrayed in the 'meeja' articles on benefit recipients AKA benefit "scroungers", and where the disabled - one is led to believe - are all fit and healthy fraudsters. They will know what it's like to be "othered".

In spite of my and my partner's disabilities and CEV status, we continued to work after retirement, and still do (we are both 80) - and plan to continue. We both believe in self-help, individual achievement and simply trying one's best. And we both pay a good whack of tax - which I'm more than happy to do. Because we have both been lucky - as have a lot of successful people when the stars align. I have been lucky because I benefitted from state support when young, education grants, free evening classes, free day-release from the Civil Service to attend college, secure accommodation in a controlled rental environment, luncheon vouchers when I started work... lots of stuff that I took out of the State, and am happy to put back in for as long as I can.

I wish you the best of luck for the future Pammie1.

nil illegitimus carborundum - as they say in cod-Latin

Japan still has only had 22k deaths from covid. They are not going to come anywhere near us. And they have achieved that without mandated lockdowns.

That is of course true.

But as we have moved into the latest phase of the pandemic, it has become apparent that whatever measures Japan currently have in place are resulting in comparable case and death levels with the UK. So perhaps their culture and the measures that they have in place are no longer as effective as some people thought they were, in the face of the latest variant?

* However, having a culture that prioritises the wellbeing of the group rather than the individual is undoubtedly beneficial during a pandemic.*

And indeed, beyond.

Japan still has only had 22k deaths from covid. They are not going to come anywhere near us. And they have achieved that without mandated lockdowns.

Actually Dickens you're post may have some explanation why. Japan has a very different culture. The complete opposite of individualism. At times, when I lived there, I found this frustrating. Getting someone to make a decision was always challenging. However, having a culture that prioritises the wellbeing of the group rather than the individual is undoubtedly beneficial during a pandemic.

Dickens

@Pammie1

It would be nice, @Dickens, to think that we could be thoughtful and inclusive of all in the way forward once restrictions end, but I fear it’s not going to happen if some of the opinions on these threads are any predictor of wider society.

You are absolutely right. As a realist, I know that being thoughtful and inclusive is not on the agenda.

Long before the pandemic I believe that we as a nation veered towards individualism and libertarianism. The politics and culture behind this are complex and debatable and I'm not about to write a thesis on it! Suffice to say that this is where we are at now. And I'm under no illusion that any appeals to 'inclusiveness', compassion and restraint will be met with anything other than indifference, disinterest and, in many instances, outright contempt.

I'm not the ablest of critical-thinkers, like many I'm subject to my gut-reaction and what goes on in my heart rather than my head. But I do try to see the bigger picture and recognise that we as a society need to function at an economic level that maintains and sustains our economy. And this means that those of us who are - to put it bluntly - non productive (or even a 'drain' on society) are going to have to accept that we are not of primary importance in a free-market, libertarian economy and culture. That is the simple fact of the matter.

I do believe it's possible to have a society where the strivers and achievers are given the opportunities to thrive and, at the same time, lesser mortals recognised for the roles they play, and the sick / disabled are cared for with compassion and pragmatism. But this is not us. It's an ideal, and it won't happen. And I know that because I am a realist. My previous meanderings are from a desire for a principled and equitable society, something that's probably impossible.

Boris Johnson knows which way the wind blows and the direction his majority crowd are travelling. And he's simply jumped in front of them and said "follow me".

... but, I'm with Miguel de Cervantes (1547 – 1616)

“When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? Perhaps to be too practical is madness. To surrender dreams - this may be madness. Too much sanity may be madness - and maddest of all: to see life as it is, and not as it should be!”

@Dickens. I couldn’t have said it better myself !! Having lived with a congenital disability I’ve noted changing attitudes over the years and there was a sea change in the early nineties when we went from taking care of those who couldn’t take care of themselves, to starting to blame them for society’s financial woes. Take state benefits for example. Various governments, starting with Blair, have tinkered with disability benefits to the point where they are now a nightmare to navigate for the people they’re supposed to help - so much so, that a lot of people are put off applying or appealing against glaringly unfair decisions. Yet another round of savage benefit cuts are planned for the next couple of years - most of them aimed at disability benefits and are dressed up and presented as ‘improved targeting at those who most need it’, which translates into cutting low level support for those deemed not worthy enough. The DWP has been changed from an agency tasked with distributing benefits to those who are entitled to them, to a virtual intelligence organisation empowered to intrude on every private area of claimants’ lives, to ensure compliance.

The UK economy could well afford to support disabled and other vulnerable groups in much better ways than we do now, there just isn’t the political will to do it - much easier to brand these people as work shy and fraudsters in order to make it palatable to the general public when the support rug is pulled out from under them.

I went to a funeral yesterday where there were more than 100 present. Even though the congregation was mainly elderly, only about half a dozen were masked even though a notice requesting masks was clearly visible. What is going on ?

nanna8

In many parts of Asia they have always worn masks if they have a cough or cold. Just common courtesy and I will be doing the same but also in places like trams, trains and indoor crowded places.

I agree - perhaps people should think about mask wearing when they have a cold or cough. I heard today that 3 acquaintances living near me have got bad colds - bad enough to be bed ridden. They've all tested negative for covid.

How did they get these colds? Obviously human contact of some sort so why not wear a mask if you do have a cold?

In many parts of Asia they have always worn masks if they have a cough or cold. Just common courtesy and I will be doing the same but also in places like trams, trains and indoor crowded places.

* I'm not a mask denier, I've got no time for the selfish who try to pretend that they are somehow special and don't want to wear a mask, but I also don't have any time for people who try to pretend its a "little thing" to ask people. Its not a little thing. Its not "normal". I agree with Baggs.*

And neither is it ‘normal’ to have been told to spend the last two years shielding because Covid would be lethal to you. Not one is saying it’s a little thing to ask. What CEV people in the main are asking for is a little consideration of the fact that Covid will continue to be more a risk for them than the rest of the population. I’ve ventured out to my local shop at quiet times in the last week or so, and have been challenged a couple of times as to why I’m still wearing a mask, and have actually been laughed at when I asked someone coming up behind me in a queue to keep a couple of feet back. It’s that kind of lack of understanding and care that I’m talking about, not necessarily mask wearing - although that would help in crowded spaces, I agree, it’s no small ask after two years of it being mandatory.

@Pammie1

It would be nice, @Dickens, to think that we could be thoughtful and inclusive of all in the way forward once restrictions end, but I fear it’s not going to happen if some of the opinions on these threads are any predictor of wider society.

You are absolutely right. As a realist, I know that being thoughtful and inclusive is not on the agenda.

Long before the pandemic I believe that we as a nation veered towards individualism and libertarianism. The politics and culture behind this are complex and debatable and I'm not about to write a thesis on it! Suffice to say that this is where we are at now. And I'm under no illusion that any appeals to 'inclusiveness', compassion and restraint will be met with anything other than indifference, disinterest and, in many instances, outright contempt.

I'm not the ablest of critical-thinkers, like many I'm subject to my gut-reaction and what goes on in my heart rather than my head. But I do try to see the bigger picture and recognise that we as a society need to function at an economic level that maintains and sustains our economy. And this means that those of us who are - to put it bluntly - non productive (or even a 'drain' on society) are going to have to accept that we are not of primary importance in a free-market, libertarian economy and culture. That is the simple fact of the matter.

I do believe it's possible to have a society where the strivers and achievers are given the opportunities to thrive and, at the same time, lesser mortals recognised for the roles they play, and the sick / disabled are cared for with compassion and pragmatism. But this is not us. It's an ideal, and it won't happen. And I know that because I am a realist. My previous meanderings are from a desire for a principled and equitable society, something that's probably impossible.

Boris Johnson knows which way the wind blows and the direction his majority crowd are travelling. And he's simply jumped in front of them and said "follow me".

... but, I'm with Miguel de Cervantes (1547 – 1616)

“When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? Perhaps to be too practical is madness. To surrender dreams - this may be madness. Too much sanity may be madness - and maddest of all: to see life as it is, and not as it should be!”

My life has gone back to normal except I am still wearing a mask to go into shops, doctor and vet surgeries and cinema. There's not much else that I did in the past but can't do now. Apart from go on holiday but that's because of blind dogs, no other reason.

I would ask, however, how many of you have gone on holiday by train or plane and arrived or returned with a cold? For many years, every single holiday that we've taken, apart from traveling by car, I've caught a virus and spent some days lying about because I was too ill to go out. My DH usually threatens to stop going to holiday because he's fed up with going out and about by himself.

On one flight, to Puglia, I decided to wear a mask but felt so self conscious that I took it off. Needless to say the first 3 days were spent either in bed or under a tree.

I could do a cost benefit analysis for the healthy period but that would be too scary.

Who has said anything about killing children?
Have I missed that?

Regarding wearing masks.

Like most of you, I have been wearing my mask diligently and might continue to do so. However its unfair and unpleasant to tell people who don't want to do that any more that they are happy to infect and kill children. Very unfair, especially from people who are complaining that they are being called names and marginalised for deciding to wear their masks.

Covering your face during interactions with other people is not "normal". New Zealand is talking about keeping their mask mandate this winter to minimise the impact of flu; well while I agree that some things will change away from our old normal, and its right that they should, wearing masks is not a zero-sum game.

I recently attended a hospital appointment for a check up related to a lung condition I have, not a progressive one thankfully. I did the 6 minute walk test that I'm sure many of you have also done, and my performance was much reduced from before. The nurse reckoned it was due to being unfit (too much lockdown laziness!) but also told me that they have a "multiplying factor" that they use now because you have to do the test in a mask; people find it difficult to perform at the same level as before because people are not able to breathe in the same amount of oxygen when they are wearing a mask.

I'm not a mask denier, I've got no time for the selfish who try to pretend that they are somehow special and don't want to wear a mask, but I also don't have any time for people who try to pretend its a "little thing" to ask people. Its not a little thing. Its not "normal". I agree with Baggs.

Nezumi65

I’m not sure what you are trying to show looking at only 2022 Volver

Japan has had a total of 22k covid deaths since the pandemic has started.

Yes, sorry Nezumi65, I had to pop out before I got everything posted.

Its trite to point at Japan and imply that they wear masks so therefore their deaths are lower than ours. Their society is completely different to ours, their diet is significantly different, the incidence of obesity is lower.

It is relevant to look at 2022 because that equates approximately to the rise of the Omicron variant, so potentially any benefits that Japan were seeing previously could have been eroded by the arrival of the more transmissible Omicron.

Also, the death rate from covid is now slightly less than twice the death rate from flu, not 10 times. We are of course, much more likely to catch covid at the moment