Ukraine

Urmstongran

???

And you think it is hilarious !

Going on about Brexit again?! We're working with all the EU countries and NATO as well as US. Focus on Ukraine rather than obsessive rumination on Brexit!!

Is disingenouousness a word?

Kali2

Urmstongran

Kali with respect you do seem obsessed by Brexit. You manage to shoehorn it into most of the political threads.

Because it is hugely and directly relevant here. Simple.

And we have to learn from it. And learn how interwoven so many things are in the modern age. Wars aren’t just fought by tanks and soldiers but by misinformation and in cyberspace. It’s an insult to imply that those of us that can see the links between Russian interference in our elections and what’s happening in the Ukraine means that we don’t care about what’s happening to the Ukrainian people. I can’t stop crying.

Kali2

Urmstongran

???

And you think it is hilarious !

I posted after Jaberwok
I thought her comment was hilarious.

Jaberwok

Oh dear , not Brexit AGAIN!

... do you not think Putin wants / wanted to de-stabilise the EU?

In that respect, Brexit is relevant - not as an issue to be debated again, but as part of the adulteration of a cohesive Europe.

So please allow people to mention it within the context without being so dismissive. It's all part of the geopolitics. These things are all interconnected.

Kali2

From Jason Hunter:

''I'm quite surprised at many a right wing UK commentator and journalist now calling Putin a "despot", "dictator", "maniac" etc.
These same people SUPPORTED Putins foreign policy funded by Russia to misinform the UK public to vote for Brexit to destabilise the EU.''

the hypocrisy of the Brexit anti EU crowd is vast and beyond.

on and on and on , like a flaming stuck record, obsessive thought processes. Have some thought for the Ukrainian people, which is what this thread is about.

No respect from me, in fact the opposite

Of course it's relevant. Putin hoping for a destabilized Europe has achieved it with the UK leaving the EU. It's apparent in the arguments/discussions that have gone on over sanctions with still some countries not wanting to join the exclusion of Russia from Swift and some countries wanting to exclude some of their trade with Russia,

Basically, by leaving the EU we removed one of the top 3 countries in the organisation. We had more clout then than we have now, with Johnson trying hard on the sidelines to prove that he is a serious politician.

Dickens

Jaberwok

Oh dear , not Brexit AGAIN!

... do you not think Putin wants / wanted to de-stabilise the EU?

In that respect, Brexit is relevant - not as an issue to be debated again, but as part of the adulteration of a cohesive Europe.

So please allow people to mention it within the context without being so dismissive. It's all part of the geopolitics. These things are all interconnected.

That is right.

Everything has to be seen through the prism of Putin’s eyes at the moment, and of course he has worked to destabilise Europe.

It is widely accepted by the security, politicians and academics that Putin interfered in the Brexit referendum.

We know that he has bankrolled the tory party and even has someone sat in the House of Lords!

The USA accept that he has interfered in their elections.

Why would we be the exception?

Freya5

MayBee70

Urmstongran

Kali with respect you do seem obsessed by Brexit. You manage to shoehorn it into most of the political threads.

That’s probably because more and more things are coming to light regarding Russian interference in both US and U.K. elections. Plus the close ties with Russia that a lot of people in the leave campaign had.

Brexit is not the issue here. Ukraine is. For those whose only thing to communicate is Brexit, think about the Ukraine. . Please do not let this be a whine about Brexit, we are working with the Europeans, and NATO, we are not operating on our own. No one, wether France, Germany us or anyone has clout against Putin on their own. It is Russia who is the pariah here, not the British public who voted to leave the EU.

Most people can think about politics in the round. They can consider more than one thing at once and see the connections between them.

May I ask why the who are cock-a-hoop at the mess they have caused think attempting to close down conversations that bring in its political relevance is okay? Surely, that is what happens in other countries - like Russia - not here.

the who
those who

Dinahmo

Of course it's relevant. Putin hoping for a destabilized Europe has achieved it with the UK leaving the EU. It's apparent in the arguments/discussions that have gone on over sanctions with still some countries not wanting to join the exclusion of Russia from Swift and some countries wanting to exclude some of their trade with Russia,

Basically, by leaving the EU we removed one of the top 3 countries in the organisation. We had more clout then than we have now, with Johnson trying hard on the sidelines to prove that he is a serious politician.

Read that it’s Johnson requesting SWIFT but EU members, especially Germany saying no.
www.independent.co.uk/world/ukraine-invasion-russia-sanctions-germany-b2023158.html?amp

I think that may change soon

karmalady

Kali2

From Jason Hunter:

''I'm quite surprised at many a right wing UK commentator and journalist now calling Putin a "despot", "dictator", "maniac" etc.
These same people SUPPORTED Putins foreign policy funded by Russia to misinform the UK public to vote for Brexit to destabilise the EU.''

the hypocrisy of the Brexit anti EU crowd is vast and beyond.

on and on and on , like a flaming stuck record, obsessive thought processes. Have some thought for the Ukrainian people, which is what this thread is about.

No respect from me, in fact the opposite

It is all very closely linked. So please excuse me, I have no more time to waste here. I am in the process of organising help and support, and collections of clothes and essentials, for Ukrainian refugees. A much much better use of my time. You could perhaps try it too.

Kali2

karmalady

Kali2

From Jason Hunter:

''I'm quite surprised at many a right wing UK commentator and journalist now calling Putin a "despot", "dictator", "maniac" etc.
These same people SUPPORTED Putins foreign policy funded by Russia to misinform the UK public to vote for Brexit to destabilise the EU.''

the hypocrisy of the Brexit anti EU crowd is vast and beyond.

on and on and on , like a flaming stuck record, obsessive thought processes. Have some thought for the Ukrainian people, which is what this thread is about.

No respect from me, in fact the opposite

It is all very closely linked. So please excuse me, I have no more time to waste here. I am in the process of organising help and support, and collections of clothes and essentials, for Ukrainian refugees. A much much better use of my time. You could perhaps try it too.

Oh good for you. All power to you?

I have been watching the women in Poland doing the same and providing food, hot drinks etc.

Pulling together is what it is all about.

Those who deny the relevance of Brexit to the destabilisation of Europe by the Russians will be those who can never admit that Brexit has any negatives whatsoever.

People across Russia who have stood up in protest against their country’s invasion of Ukraine are winning praise from politicians in the UK and across the world.

What a stark contrast with the reaction of – for example – UK Labour leader Keir Starmer, who has forced 11 of his MPs to withdraw their protest against the war under threat of losing the party whip!

All of these protests if they took place in the UK, would soon be illegal under the Tory government’s Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts legislation that is currently working its way through Parliament.

And it seems Labour’s current leadership tacitly supports such suppression; here’s how Starmer reacted to his MPs’ exercise of their right to free speech:

Yes, it seems he demanded that they withdraw their signatures from a statement by the Stop the War Coalition, condemning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

The statement itself is straightforward:

a few of the eu countries are showing themselves to be cowards, nothing new there. This war could be snuffed out if they showed the braveryof the uk

btw, I have direct family experience of kgb, russian invasion etc but I am saying no more. Actions speak very much louder than words and I am not talking about cups of tea and clothes

This lady is an Ukraine MP. I do hope she is correct and can confirm it is correct soon..

Iuliia Mendel
@IuliiaMendel
·
1h
Western countries came to an agreement to disconnect Russia from the SWIFT payment system and began preparations for the implementation of this sanction -
@DmytroKuleb

When are we going to open our borders to Ukraine folk?

This war could be snuffed out if they showed the bravery of the uk

I would in no way question your personal experience in this matter but to suggest that they UK are being brave here and the rest of the EU aren't is just laughable. Sorry.

What a stark contrast with the reaction of – for example – UK Labour leader Keir Starmer, who has forced 11 of his MPs to withdraw their protest against the war statement claiming that NATO were responsible for the war under threat of losing the party whip!

There, fixed that for you.

False news, everywhere you look. Just everywhere.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is proving so unpopular that several Russian MPs are withdrawing their support for the Kremlin.

Urmstongran

Kali2

Urmstongran

???

And you think it is hilarious !

I posted after Jaberwok
I thought her comment was hilarious.

If you think “oh dear not Brexit again” is a hilarious comment….you must be an absolute pushover audience for stand up comedians.

Whitewavemark2

Dickens

Jaberwok

Oh dear , not Brexit AGAIN!

... do you not think Putin wants / wanted to de-stabilise the EU?

In that respect, Brexit is relevant - not as an issue to be debated again, but as part of the adulteration of a cohesive Europe.

So please allow people to mention it within the context without being so dismissive. It's all part of the geopolitics. These things are all interconnected.

That is right.

Everything has to be seen through the prism of Putin’s eyes at the moment, and of course he has worked to destabilise Europe.

It is widely accepted by the security, politicians and academics that Putin interfered in the Brexit referendum.

We know that he has bankrolled the tory party and even has someone sat in the House of Lords!

The USA accept that he has interfered in their elections.

Why would we be the exception?

Frankly, I think it's absurd to believe that Britain leaving the EU is somehow not relevant in relation to Putin's master plan. It would benefit him enormously if other nations did the same.

I don't get the sensitivity about Brexit being mentioned in this context. And certainly in relation to Putin's intentions. Is it any different to talking about his attitude towards 'NATO expansion', etc?

Do people understand geopolitics?

A disunited Europe is what this megalomaniac wants. Brexit was a part of this dis-unification, and that's a fact. Brexit has consequences - Remaining would have had consequences, too, the EU is an imperfect institution and our response to this crisis would have been governed by that aspect.

We are not discussing 'Brexit' - we are talking about its ramifications.