Ukraine

Im really devastated by this news. God help us all and the Ukrainian people. War is a terrible thing.

The EU and USA are leading the way on this. It is becoming more clear as events unfold that the U.K. is not a country that Putin needs taking into account.

DaisyAnne

maddyone

It’s irrelevant what BJ did or didn’t do, likewise other world leaders. Putin was always going to invade and nothing would have stopped him. If anyone true believes that something BJ did would have stopped Putin, I’m afraid they’re deluded.

Calling fellow posters deluded is not a great way to debate.

Of course Putin will have taken note of the strength and weakness of those governments who might stop him. If we can see Johnson and this Dirty Parliament for what it is why do you suppose he can't?

I don't know, DaisyAnne.

Deluded is not a particularly offensive word.

Of course Putin will have taken note of the strength and weakness of those governments who might stop him. If we can see Johnson and this Dirty Parliament for what it is why do you suppose he can't?

Do you honestly believe that? Surely not.

maddyone

It’s irrelevant what BJ did or didn’t do, likewise other world leaders. Putin was always going to invade and nothing would have stopped him. If anyone true believes that something BJ did would have stopped Putin, I’m afraid they’re deluded.

Calling fellow posters deluded is not a great way to debate.

Of course Putin will have taken note of the strength and weakness of those governments who might stop him. If we can see Johnson and this Dirty Parliament for what it is why do you suppose he can't?

Lord Dannatt, the former head of the Army, suggested anti-tank weapons and clothing and equipment were the appropriate defensive means to arm the Ukrainians. “All along we’ve said it’s not appropriate to send British soldiers to fight in Ukraine. However, we support its independence and its right to defend the integrity of its territory,” he said.

“It’s fair that we continue to send them weapons and equipment as a practical measure of our support.”

However, Lord Dannatt stressed that there were “no circumstances” in which the UK would send troops into Ukraine. “Against 150,000-plus Russian combat troops, the most we could send would be 3,000 to 5,000 and it would be futile, a waste of British lives and the wrong thing to do,” he said.

“We can support the Ukrainians but we are not going to fight it for them.”

rosie1959

No amount of Sanctions brought in by any Government would have stopped him

Yes Rosie absolutely.

It’s irrelevant what BJ did or didn’t do, likewise other world leaders. Putin was always going to invade and nothing would have stopped him. If anyone true believes that something BJ did would have stopped Putin, I’m afraid they’re deluded.

Urmstongran

I disagree.

Not surprised.

I disagree.

It really does not help that Johnson is up to his neck in dirty Russian money and oligarchs either!

DaisyAnne- I just don't know what to say. Never ever have we been on the edge of a nuclear war like today. You can talk about Hitler and WW2 - but there is no comparison, none.

It doesn’t really help that trump has expressed his admiration for Putin and called him a genius. It’s all on the CNN website. If he was still POTUS the USA wouldn’t raise a finger. If he is re-elected in 2024, I am certain trump would be even more divisive than he is now.

Kali2

Because it would avoid the most disastrous war ever?

I agree with ruby and jabberwork, and for the first time ever in my whole life, even with Farage who said the same.

That's like agreeing to let the Nazis take over in Germany in the 1930s because you think it will keep you safe.

Are you truly saying you would be prepared to live under Soviet power and not fight for your democracy. That is what you are asking them to do.

What you are suggesting is not an option. Putin has made it very clear that he wants control.

oldwoman70 You condemn the UK for the sanctions imposed yet have not answered the question of just what sanctions should be imposed! Seems you are using this dreadful situation, brought about by a power mad meglomaniac, to carry on your usual attacks on the UKdemocratically elected government. Yes I did answer the question as to what sanctions should be imposed - immediately freeze Russian assets and money laundering in Londongrad, hand back donations from Putin followers to Tory Party , unite with other European countries instead of knocking them. That’s for starters. We are allowed to criticise the government here - they are weak and have weakened this country deliberately , sold off our assets to foreign governments - no one should support that.

oh god now the dipstick is preparing to address the nation. I think I'm going to go and hide in the understairs cupboard

Urmstongran

Apparently many European countries have factories in Russia making parts for them. Sanctions are likely to hurt Europe more than Russia.

It’s called war. Stuff happens and sacrifices made.

I would hope that we have the backbone to face up to such an authoritarian bully.

Putin is talking very tough and very alarmingly of meeting any push back from the west with consequences that the world has never seen.

I was saddened and shocked to wake to the dreadful news this morning. Putin knows that the West is weak. He won’t be stopped by any sanctions we can impose. I wonder what his relationship with the Chinese government is like.

No promises have been broken about countries joining NATO.

Are we being apologists for Putin this morning?

Apparently many European countries have factories in Russia making parts for them. Sanctions are likely to hurt Europe more than Russia.

rubysong

I've just seen a map (Enlargement of NATO, Wikipedia) and I can see why it looks, to Russian eyes, like western imperialism, as the NATO colours creep nearer and nearer. Former Soviet countries should never has been accepted. Ukraine Georgia and Bosnia Herzegovina are officially 'aspiring' countries. No wonder Russia feels threatened.

Indeed.
I was told recently that promises were made to the Soviet Union at the time of its dissolution that former Soviet bloc countries would not join NATO.

I hold no brief for Putin but I can see why his country would feel threatened by those broken promises.

I've just seen a map (Enlargement of NATO, Wikipedia) and I can see why it looks, to Russian eyes, like western imperialism, as the NATO colours creep nearer and nearer. Former Soviet countries should never has been accepted. Ukraine Georgia and Bosnia Herzegovina are officially 'aspiring' countries. No wonder Russia feels threatened.

Very sorry, link does not work.

twitter.com/13sarah.../status/1496750291798142979...

The Conservative party, on behalf of the UK- have been supporting Putin for a very long time. Johnson is up to his neck in the support he has given Russia and its oligarchs for a very long time. And he has put us all at huge risks due to his greed and worse.

Because it would avoid the most disastrous war ever?

I agree with ruby and jabberwork, and for the first time ever in my whole life, even with Farage who said the same.

Meanwhile ... This is how the big boys make their money. They just love panic. Everyone sells and they buy cheap.