Ukraine

It speaks of and arogance Zjoeory. You may think you know more than others, which is what you imply, but you do not improve discussion by calling people names.

Trump thinks Putin is a genius. How on earth do men like this get to the top of their political trees? I watched Orla Guerin's report from the Ukraine last night. The young boy she was interviewing says he is scared about the threat of invasion but will stand and fight for his country. So many young lives will be lost in this conflict.

I wonder if anyone else is thinking of neclear weapons in the hands of a mad man. His threats seem to point to the fact that Putin may well be thinking about them.

DaisyAnne

It speaks of and arogance Zjoeory. You may think you know more than others, which is what you imply, but you do not improve discussion by calling people names.

What speaks of arrogance, DaisyAnne?

Where have I ever implied I know more than others? I am not a frequent poster on here

Which name did I call someone?

I just mentioned that calling someone deluded is not a huge slur. Gosh, I call myself deluded many a time.

Thank you Zoejory. The point that I’m making is simply that whatever BJ did would not have stopped Putin. It worries me that there are posters on here who appear to truly believe that BJ’s actions or lack of action has made the first bit of difference. Is their hatred of BJ so overwhelming that they can’t see the wood for the trees? This was always going to happen, we’ve been watching the build up on Ukraine’s borders over several weeks. Putin wants control of Ukraine and BJ (or any other world leader) was never going to stop him. Yes, anyone who thinks BJ could have stopped this is deluded.

Putin is clearly deluded, paranoid and possibly psychotic. Mr H was all those things in 1938.
I don’t pretend to have a plan but having a government funded to a great extent by Russian money has to be an unfortunate fact

Oh dear. Another threat spoiled.
removes seklf

self. If only I could spell.

WWM2 I find myself in total agreement with you. We need to be strong and stand up to this bully, just as Kennedy did with the Bay of Pigs stand off. Putin isn’t going to stop at Ukraine. Perhaps whilst Putin had most of his country’s troops and tanks etc lined up on the railway lines we should have threatened to bomb them if they did not disperse, and to have done it. Putin needs to know the west means business. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Appeasement is seen as weakness.

Regarding sanctions that can cut both ways. What happens when we can no longer get wheat from Ukraine, one of our prime suppliers? Bread prices will soar for one.

Maybe we have been too busy with personal pronouns etc. With Putin it won’t be what lives matter. It will be that no lives matter.

Whitewavemark2

The EU and USA are leading the way on this. It is becoming more clear as events unfold that the U.K. is not a country that Putin needs taking into account.

Do you really think that there would be any way that Putin would care less what the people or leaders of the UK think? Or for that matter, any other country? Much as I absolutely hate to say it, Trump may have had some influence. But no other country.

The US is not going to go to war to defend Ukraine and even heavy sanctions will not affect Putin's regime unfortunately.

We are forgetting there is a big world out there, other than the US & Europe, and they have no political beef with Putin & Russia, for example China, India, SE Asia, Middle East etc.

Ukraine is at the mercy of whatever limits Putin put on his invasion.

No nothing Johnson could do to stop Putin so he should stop pretending he's some sort of world statesman. We should wean ourself off Russian dirty money for a start, we should stop dual nationals donating to political parties, we should sanction a whole list of Russians including Roman Abramovic, but we've got so used to foreign money sloshing around that the powers that be would loose out. We can't act alone and this government have deliberately isolated ourselves.

Putin is clearly deluded, paranoid and possibly psychotic.

Absolutely, this. The man is unhinged in my totally un medical opinion. This makes him very dangerous. I believe no one could have stopped him, anymore than anyone could have stopped Hitler. The question now is what to do?

Trump was correct in calling Vladimir Putin’s strategy genius, he has played the the rest of the world (excluding China who I think are in full agreement).

He had absolutely no intention of backing down this has been on the drawing board since 2014 when he annexed Crimea

rubysong

I agree with Jabberwok I think NATO could have made it clear that Ukraine would not join NATO. Former Soviet countries should have taken the Finland approach, (NATO stay out, Russia stay out.) One by one they have been joining, I can see why he felt threatened. Having said that, I think he will now stop at nothing to get Soviet States back. Going via Donbass gave him a way in as they are largely in favour of joining Russia. None of our sanctions will have an effect on him, short of all out war, which I hope won't happen.

It is NATO expansion that caused the problem a neutral Ukraine was not seen as a threat by Russia, it’s US and EU courting them to join has caused the crisis. Finland, an EU member co-exists quite happily bordering Russia despite being encouraged to join NATO over decades.

Ukraine could have enjoyed peaceful neutrality.

We should not fight, bomb, send troops. It will lead to nuclear war.

25Avalon

WWM2 I find myself in total agreement with you. We need to be strong and stand up to this bully, just as Kennedy did with the Bay of Pigs stand off. Putin isn’t going to stop at Ukraine. Perhaps whilst Putin had most of his country’s troops and tanks etc lined up on the railway lines we should have threatened to bomb them if they did not disperse, and to have done it. Putin needs to know the west means business. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Appeasement is seen as weakness.

Regarding sanctions that can cut both ways. What happens when we can no longer get wheat from Ukraine, one of our prime suppliers? Bread prices will soar for one.

Maybe we have been too busy with personal pronouns etc. With Putin it won’t be what lives matter. It will be that no lives matter.

I agree. I never ever thought I would hear myself saying this as I always, always prefer peace. But an out of control dictator only understands one thing.

I would like to send a virtual hug to all GN posters who have family in our Armed Forces.

They are some of, if not the best trained and disciplined forces in the world. They will do whatever is asked of them.

Our AC has always said that he has had a wonderful fulfilling career and knew what they signed up for, they take the peace keeping with the wars.

Please spare a thought for us in these most difficult days…

Katie59

rubysong

I agree with Jabberwok I think NATO could have made it clear that Ukraine would not join NATO. Former Soviet countries should have taken the Finland approach, (NATO stay out, Russia stay out.) One by one they have been joining, I can see why he felt threatened. Having said that, I think he will now stop at nothing to get Soviet States back. Going via Donbass gave him a way in as they are largely in favour of joining Russia. None of our sanctions will have an effect on him, short of all out war, which I hope won't happen.

It is NATO expansion that caused the problem a neutral Ukraine was not seen as a threat by Russia, it’s US and EU courting them to join has caused the crisis. Finland, an EU member co-exists quite happily bordering Russia despite being encouraged to join NATO over decades.

Ukraine could have enjoyed peaceful neutrality.

It is not NATO expansion that has caused the problems. NATO is purely defensive and anybody can apply to join. Anybody. If Russia feels threatened by having peaceful democracies on its border, its Russia that needs to change, not the peaceful democracies.

They are looking for a pretext, that's all.

In his Monday night speech Putin was blaming Lenin for "disbanding" greater Russia in 1917. One of the countries that emerged from that was Finland. Finland is now considering joining NATO.

A timely reminder GG13 of-the sacrifices we ask others to make on our behalf in times of need.

gg13 I send my support to all military people, and wish them the strength and discipline to face what may be ahead.

Putin seems to have ideas of re creating the old USSR and re - claiming all those territories. He wants to be remembered as the Man who made Russia Great again. He doesn’t care about the rest of Europe they are not in his thoughts at all and I would be pretty sure nuclear weapons would be deployed if and when necessary. The world is changing and not for the better.

maddyone

Thank you Zoejory. The point that I’m making is simply that whatever BJ did would not have stopped Putin. It worries me that there are posters on here who appear to truly believe that BJ’s actions or lack of action has made the first bit of difference. Is their hatred of BJ so overwhelming that they can’t see the wood for the trees? This was always going to happen, we’ve been watching the build up on Ukraine’s borders over several weeks. Putin wants control of Ukraine and BJ (or any other world leader) was never going to stop him. Yes, anyone who thinks BJ could have stopped this is deluded.

That is simply not what I have read on here. No one thinks Johnson/the UK could achieve anything on his own. However, we are in a difficult position working with our allies after Brexit. We could well not be in a good position working with the US after Johnson's cosying up to Trump although I hold Biden in higher esteem than that. He will put the countries first I think as I think, will the maority of EU politicians. This Dirty Parliament does not command my esteem in that way. The UK only ever had the power it had but Johnson has diminished it but no one is spouting the nonsense you attribute to them.

President Roosevelt's foreign policy was "Speak softly and carry a big stick." Sadly Johnson's is just the opposite. He talks loudly and for his personal purposes and never ensures the stick is available and the systems needed to use it are properly funded and staffed.

Nothing but nothing is inevitable except, it seems, some of the incredible posts, made without factual backing, on GN. We now have war once more in Europe and calling others "deluded" is simply unhelpful.

This is what troops of all the NATO nations exercise and train for and have done since before the Berlin Wall came down. NATO has never taken its eyes off the Eastern borders. I’m sure GG13’s DS would tell you the same. The only thing the west can do at the moment is to put its faith in NATO as per article 5. The Prime Minister of Estonia said as much this morning. Poland and the Baltic nations have now triggered consultations under article four. I was nearly in tears this morning listening to the Ukrainian Ambassador berating his Russian counterpart in the UN. The Russian looked embarrassed. So he bloody well should be.

It’s altogether a very worrisome time. We can all agree on that, I’m grateful to watch Brussels live currently it’s reassuring and fright at the same time.