Julia Hartley-Brewer v Stella Creasy

I really don't understand why taking a sleeping baby in a sling in the middle of the night to vote is such a big deal. It's not like the PM took all his children in with him to vote, I could understand the logistical problems with that

It is male dominated though and decisions made over the last 12 years have really affected women in a negative way. The changes to family allowance for a start, cuts to services, cuts to carers services, inadequate access to respite - just those things affect women more than men.

By-election.

I'm sorry. I know its not done to correct spelling, but it's so distracting.

The maternity leave would only ever apply to a women, the changing parties is an established male prerogative. One again male values dominate our parliament

Women MPs have crossed the floor too, not as many, less than 50.
But that throws up another question - should there be a bi- election as the MP may not then represent what their voters wanted?

I can't see that permitting an MP to take a year's maternity leave, with someone standing in who had the same political principles and belonged to the same political party, would be any different or anymore objectionable than an MP choosing to cross the floor and join a party which isn't the one he was elected to support. There is one big difference of course. The maternity leave would only ever apply to a women, the changing parties is an established male prerogative. One again male values dominate our parliament.

because I can guess what comes next

Never assume anything

Well, that is wonderful!
What do the voters think?

Why is this so hard?

Why does anybody object to people trying to make other people's lives better and making the country fairer?

BTW - I wasn't going to post this because I can guess what comes next. But the Scottish Finance Minister is taking maternity leave and the Parliament is working out how to make it work.

Callistemon the world isn't as black and white as that

I'm just asking questions
It's not me that is rigid and inflexible.
Read some of the posts on here.
?

Why is maternity leave (or paternity leave) impossible for MPs?
Creasy is advocating better family friendly hours in the HoC, as are many other MPs

Fair enough; they should have the same rights in law as other parents - they passed the laws.
How would that work - parental leave cover would require a bi-election?

She is in a peculiar job with specific working conditions and an absent husband. Her fight does not apply to most working parents, it is quite unique in fact.

What about 24/7 365 pa provision for all working parents?
Who pays? Who provides the cover?

Callistemon the world isn't as black and white as that. I've posted a link to a conference that she was part of this week, I'll not do it again as that would be spamming.

What's suitable for an MP might not be suitable for a bus driver, but everyone's situation could be improved. I agree with Iam64's post.

Why is maternity leave (or paternity leave) impossible for MPs?
Creasy is advocating better family friendly hours in the HoC, as are many other MPs

We need subsidised high quality child care for pre schoolers. Breakfast, after school and holiday clubs for school age children. We need to focus on parents/carers rather than mothers being seen as the parent who goes part time, stops working etc
She’s a brave woman to make herself the target of so much criticism for drawing attention to these issues

So what exactly is she advocating?
The rights of all mothers to have state provided childcare available for 24/7 365 days a year?
The rights of mothers to be able to take their children to work? Try telling that to the Captain of an RN vessel, an Army major, an RAF pilot!
Maternity leave for MPs?

What, exactly?

Like I said yesterday, if even Raab thinks she's got a point, then you have to think she's doing something right.

Coming into parliament, trying to make people's lives better. Who does she think she is? An elected lawmaker or something?

Whatever next
This, as you are challenging:

2nd November 2021
Covid restrictions are being stepped up in parliament, with MPs told to wear masks, tours of the building cancelled and some staff told to work from home.

The move came after the UK Health Security Agency warned the risk of the virus transmitting between those who work in the Palace of Westminster had become “greater”

Ms Creasy took her baby into the Commons just a couple of weeks later.

Nanny must have been busy.

I don't know if she is furthering the rights of working mothers or not; many may be riled that she has so many advantages compared to them regarding childcare and the ability to pay for it and think she is posturing and grandstanding.
Is she helping or not?

Callistemon21

^I thought you might want to have another go at finding some facts that would support the argument, since the ones you had found did the exact opposite^.

Yes, the facts do fit.
Stella Creasy publicised this once before when she took her 13 week old baby into the HofC when she could have voted by proxy; rather reckless with Covid around.
She took the baby in again age 7 months when she could quite easily have left him at home with the Nanny.

She is not really advancing the cause of mothers' rights when she had perfectly satisfactory alternatives each time.

You posted a link to a document that you thought proved the fact that Creasey could have voted by proxy and then another poster pretended there was a "deafening silence", perhaps thinking that there was no answer to it, you'd found the truth.

I posted an extract from the document you linked to that showed that the way you were trying to use it was incorrect and that Creasey could not have voted by proxy.

So, the link that you found actually proved the opposite to what you thought it did. The facts didn't fit.

Now you're accusing her of exposing the baby to Covid. What next.

Callistemon21

^I thought you might want to have another go at finding some facts that would support the argument, since the ones you had found did the exact opposite^.

Yes, the facts do fit.
Stella Creasy publicised this once before when she took her 13 week old baby into the HofC when she could have voted by proxy; rather reckless with Covid around.
She took the baby in again age 7 months when she could quite easily have left him at home with the Nanny.

She is not really advancing the cause of mothers' rights when she had perfectly satisfactory alternatives each time.

But surely the point is that everyone doesn't and she represents those people.

Callistemon21

^The working mother thing…. Went back to part time work after four years at home^

I would think that many of us did that although life doesn't always work out as we plan.
So it is not a case of working mothers -v- stay at home mothers; it's a case of finding the best way to be a juggler and keep all the balls in the air particularly as, quite often, women find they are the carers for elderly parents at the same time as seeing to children's needs.

Children's needs are paramount imo. Work fits in around children, that is why so many women I know became teachers or worked part-time or flexible hours if possible.

Not everyone may agree, of course.

My point was that going back to work definitely made me a better person AND parent. Staying at home doesn’t automatically make one a better parent !

If you want to really see some hate, take a look at the responses Creasey got on Twitter when she tweeted this picture. Bus drivers come up, of course. Medics too. "Sense of entitlement." Almost like people were copying each other.

I think my favourite is the woman saying there's a lack of affordable childcare where she lives/works, and that Stella should do something about that

Perhaps I should have married a SAHD

What every would-be mother needs!

I wouldnt advise anyone to do it, whether they were related to me or not, I think it entrenches the situation for women and makes sharing the job of raising children etc even more difficult.

Galaxy

I went part time after my children were born, if I had daughters I would advise them not to do that.

I wouldn't advise my daughters - they are perfectly capable of deciding for themselves!!

I thought you might want to have another go at finding some facts that would support the argument, since the ones you had found did the exact opposite.

Yes, the facts do fit.
Stella Creasy publicised this once before when she took her 13 week old baby into the HofC when she could have voted by proxy; rather reckless with Covid around.
She took the baby in again age 7 months when she could quite easily have left him at home with the Nanny.

She is not really advancing the cause of mothers' rights when she had perfectly satisfactory alternatives each time.

I went part time after my children were born, if I had daughters I would advise them not to do that.

The working mother thing…. Went back to part time work after four years at home

I would think that many of us did that although life doesn't always work out as we plan.
So it is not a case of working mothers -v- stay at home mothers; it's a case of finding the best way to be a juggler and keep all the balls in the air particularly as, quite often, women find they are the carers for elderly parents at the same time as seeing to children's needs.

Children's needs are paramount imo. Work fits in around children, that is why so many women I know became teachers or worked part-time or flexible hours if possible.

Not everyone may agree, of course.