Julia Hartley-Brewer v Stella Creasy

HolySox

^"growstuff

Callistemon21

Stella Creasy has a nanny!

She took the baby into the H of C to make a point. Is it a valid point? Possibly.
She could have expressed and Nanny could have looked after the baby and fed it a bottle of Mummy's milk.
Some mothers manage to do that.

Yes, it's a very valid point."*

So what is the point?

If it is valid for women to take babies to work with them, strapped in a sling maybe, then employers do not need to give maternity leave and the state doesn't need to provide maternity benefit! Stella Creasey does nothing for working women - it just self promotion.

Did having the baby in a sling interfere with her work?

volver

I can't believe that we're in 2021 and there are people who still think the only reason that mothers work is because they selfishly want more money.

Wakey wakey, 2022?
Yes, appreciate some women prefer a 'career' other than being a mother. Working on a till in the supermarket to make ends meet isn't a career.

volver

I can't believe that we're in 2021 and there are people who still think the only reason that mothers work is because they selfishly want more money.

Oh! I can believe it. I've read the same kind of sentiments too many times not to believe it.

^"growstuff

Callistemon21

Stella Creasy has a nanny!

She took the baby into the H of C to make a point. Is it a valid point? Possibly.
She could have expressed and Nanny could have looked after the baby and fed it a bottle of Mummy's milk.
Some mothers manage to do that.

Yes, it's a very valid point."*

So what is the point?

If it is valid for women to take babies to work with them, strapped in a sling maybe, then employers do not need to give maternity leave and the state doesn't need to provide maternity benefit! Stella Creasey does nothing for working women - it just self promotion.

DaisyAnne

DiscoDancer Sat 05-Mar-22 09:47:16.

If you have been "made to feel inadequate over the years" then why deal with it by attempting to do the same to others?

You did, indeed say "only SAHM’s know how to bring up their children." What you said is: "You can’t put your children first if you’re working. It’s just basic common sense." I don't think there is any other way to read that sentence.

You throw challenges at others and then expect not to be challenged yourself. That is never going to happen if you treat your opinions as truths. They are not. I would go as far as to say they are a distorted opinion of how the world works for many parents.

If you had said it worked for you. If you had recognised everyone's circumstances differ, that the world has changed a lot since then, I doubt anyone would even have replied. But telling people that only those who did what you did "put their children first" was never going to go down well, was it.

Well said!

I can't believe that we're in 2021 and there are people who still think the only reason that mothers work is because they selfishly want more money.

HolySox

Daisymae ^"I'll ask you the same question then HolySox. So what you are saying that all and only "stay at home mothers", in all circumstances, know best how to bring up their children. And you are also saying all and only "stay at home mothers" put their children first and always do so.

Is this correct?"^

This is not what I am saying but I think most mums know best how to look after their own children. From my experience most mums would like to be a SAHM to give that care. However many mum can't afford it so have to work. Stella Creasy can afford it but prefers to pursue her own career. Not all women make natural mothers as one poster reported earlier in the thread.
So I'll ask you ... do you think it correct to take a baby to work with you?

Why shouldn't she pursue her own career?

DaisyAnne

DiscoDancer Sat 05-Mar-22 09:47:16.

If you have been "made to feel inadequate over the years" then why deal with it by attempting to do the same to others?

You did, indeed say "only SAHM’s know how to bring up their children." What you said is: "You can’t put your children first if you’re working. It’s just basic common sense." I don't think there is any other way to read that sentence.

You throw challenges at others and then expect not to be challenged yourself. That is never going to happen if you treat your opinions as truths. They are not. I would go as far as to say they are a distorted opinion of how the world works for many parents.

If you had said it worked for you. If you had recognised everyone's circumstances differ, that the world has changed a lot since then, I doubt anyone would even have replied. But telling people that only those who did what you did "put their children first" was never going to go down well, was it.

Those two sentences are not the same at all!! I am sorry if it’s offended you. That was definitely not my intention.

I don’t understand how I’ve thrown challenges at others I’ve merely stated my own opinion. Challenges occur before the event....not after. So when my daughters talk about going back to work, I challenge them on the pros and cons, and you’re right, I can certainly see how things have changed for them. I can’t challenge any of you, because it’s over and done with.

If it’s of any interest to you....there are things I regret now, and wish I’d done differently, but being a SAHM isn’t one of them.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Thank you for a well-balanced post TerriBull.

Honestly if we all condensed everything we've ever done in say the past 40 or so years, relating to work and home into a brief, or not so brief list, anyone can walk around humming to themselves "anything you can do, I can do better"

Everyone's circumstances are different, I do think at times that is being overlooked here, if like Callistemon you have a husband working away from home then a presence of one parent I imagine as the main lynch pin for home and family would be required. Some on GN have stated they have quite a few children, 5 or so, I can't imagine how the logistics of managing a family of that size would slot into the working life, I know Nicola Horlick and others have done that very thing, but on huge incomes, I imagine every paid help possible is at their disposal. There are posts here that state their own circumstances, and often they will be irrelevant to other people's lives. In an ideal world there would be two parents to share the day to day running of the home and raising of the children that is not always the case. I know single parents who have had to do major juggling, I know people who have had paid au pairs or nannies. Personally, I don't think palming one's children off on aged parents is always a good idea, unless they are specifically forthcoming in wanting to do that, but in my experience the generation above us were far more of the mindset "you had them you look after them" school of thought.

When I had my children I had been at work for something in the region of 15 years. We fully discussed me staying at home to look after the children until they went into full time education. My husband was by far the major bread winner, although I am at pains to point out that many women assume that role these days, I know of several couples where the woman of the household earns the most.

Do I think my staying at home in their early years made me a better mother, not particularly, it was an extreme learning curve and I hadn't had experience of being around babies or young children before so in some ways a rude awakening. All I can say is I did my best and of course made my mistakes, many things I'd do differently with hindsight, but I'm sure many of us who don't proclaim to have superpowers would put their hands up to that!

Daisymae ^"I'll ask you the same question then HolySox. So what you are saying that all and only "stay at home mothers", in all circumstances, know best how to bring up their children. And you are also saying all and only "stay at home mothers" put their children first and always do so.

Is this correct?"^

This is not what I am saying but I think most mums know best how to look after their own children. From my experience most mums would like to be a SAHM to give that care. However many mum can't afford it so have to work. Stella Creasy can afford it but prefers to pursue her own career. Not all women make natural mothers as one poster reported earlier in the thread.
So I'll ask you ... do you think it correct to take a baby to work with you?

DiscoDancer Sat 05-Mar-22 09:47:16.

If you have been "made to feel inadequate over the years" then why deal with it by attempting to do the same to others?

You did, indeed say "only SAHM’s know how to bring up their children." What you said is: "You can’t put your children first if you’re working. It’s just basic common sense." I don't think there is any other way to read that sentence.

You throw challenges at others and then expect not to be challenged yourself. That is never going to happen if you treat your opinions as truths. They are not. I would go as far as to say they are a distorted opinion of how the world works for many parents.

If you had said it worked for you. If you had recognised everyone's circumstances differ, that the world has changed a lot since then, I doubt anyone would even have replied. But telling people that only those who did what you did "put their children first" was never going to go down well, was it.

Callistemon21

^I ran every morning before breakfast for 5 or 6 miles with my sister, until my 40's I weight trained 2 evenings a week^

Obviously someone was at home with the children while you did all that, paddyann.
Like Stella Creasy's DH, my DH was away for months at a time.
I didn't have a Mum handy to step in and my MIL was a widow, working full-time with a teenager still at home.

As the children got older, so I was able to increase my working hours. But yes, I did loll around at home for a while doing sweet FA but knitting and sewing.

? of course. Mad isn’t it? My husband often worked away too, and I had absolutely no one else to help, even if I’d wanted it.

Ps who is Julia Hartley-Brewer btw?

And nobody should claim the things they have about women who worked full-time while their children were young! Strangely enough, you haven't criticised those posters.

I don't need to - working mothers are quite able to stand up for themselves!

It's not either/or, though, is it.
Most of us were both during our lives.

That's another point.
There will be many who do not pay off their student loans for whatever reason, not just mothers.

Callistemon21

Stella Creasy has a nanny!

She took the baby into the H of C to make a point. Is it a valid point? Possibly.
She could have expressed and Nanny could have looked after the baby and fed it a bottle of Mummy's milk.
Some mothers manage to do that.

Yes, it's a very valid point.

Callistemon21

^I ran every morning before breakfast for 5 or 6 miles with my sister, until my 40's I weight trained 2 evenings a week^

paddyann just proved the point that it is possible to do other things without having the baby in a sling attached to your breast 24/7 or toddlers needing attention.
It is possible as long as you have another person to take over the care

Not all of us did so we did the job of looking after our children ourselves and no-one should be looked down on for that.

And nobody should claim the things they have about women who worked full-time while their children were young! Strangely enough, you haven't criticised those posters.

So where does this end? If women are graduates and take time from a career to look after their children full-time, they will almost certainly not pay back their student loans before they're written off. Should we say it's not worth educating young women at higher level?

I ran every morning before breakfast for 5 or 6 miles with my sister, until my 40's I weight trained 2 evenings a week

paddyann just proved the point that it is possible to do other things without having the baby in a sling attached to your breast 24/7 or toddlers needing attention.
It is possible as long as you have another person to take over the care

Not all of us did so we did the job of looking after our children ourselves and no-one should be looked down on for that.

DiscoDancer1975

I said right at the beginning....that it’s just my opinion. Those of you incensed by my thoughts don’t make any sense to me. Why does it bother you so much what I think? We don’t know each other. You all made your choices and I made mine.

I, and many other SAHM’s have been made to feel inadequate over the years, for not being ‘ super mum’ and doing it all. Yet at one time or another, all my children have said how glad they were I stayed at home. So many of their friends weren’t happy that both their parents worked. This is my experience.

I never said only SAHM’s know how to bring up their children . I said they simply don’t have time to be in two places at once. Someone has to be with the children.

My children were never looked after by anyone else, unless you count nursery ( two mornings a week, rising to every morning just before they started school), and school itself. Babysitters if we went out in the evening.

I’m tired of being on threads where you’re taken down for your opinions. It’s just not worth it.

Has it occurred to you and others how critical you have been of women who work while their children are young? Maybe if you'd been more tolerant of those who have different opinions and/or fond themselves in different situations, you wouldn't have had so much stick.

FWIW I think attitudes have maybe changed over the last 30 years, but I was definitely made to feel "inadequate" when my children went to nursery at the age of six months. I lived in a small village and the gossip got back to me and was very hurtful. My children have grown into well-balanced adults and I do not accept they suffered from not having their mother around 24/7.

Stella Creasy has a nanny!

She took the baby into the H of C to make a point. Is it a valid point? Possibly.
She could have expressed and Nanny could have looked after the baby and fed it a bottle of Mummy's milk.
Some mothers manage to do that.

I ran every morning before breakfast for 5 or 6 miles with my sister, until my 40's I weight trained 2 evenings a week

Obviously someone was at home with the children while you did all that, paddyann.
Like Stella Creasy's DH, my DH was away for months at a time.
I didn't have a Mum handy to step in and my MIL was a widow, working full-time with a teenager still at home.

As the children got older, so I was able to increase my working hours. But yes, I did loll around at home for a while doing sweet FA but knitting and sewing.

saying that saying is that

HolySox

I think you're right DD1975, "You can't put your chiodren first if you're working."

This Stella Creasy wasn't sitting in the commons with her knitting. She was there with her baby. She is elected and paid to be in the HoC to play an active role. Not just 'vote' (which coukd have been done by proxy) but to follow the debate and offer contribution. When baby needed attention Stella would have had to give the baby priority. Same with any job. Awful woman using her child for own selfish poloitcal ambitions. Are social services investigating her?

I'll ask you the same question then HolySox. So what you are saying that all and only "stay at home mothers", in all circumstances, know best how to bring up their children. And you are also saying all and only "stay at home mothers" put their children first and always do so.

Is this correct?