Johnson, Putin, Lebedev, chemical weapons have already been used.

Grandmabatty

DaisyAnne I took Doodledogs comments to mean that we in the UK don't know half of what is going on while happy to comment that the Russians are in that position.

That's how I read it as well Grandmabatty and I shudder to think what else has been going on that we don't know about.

MaizieD
You could turn that round.
Maybe, just maybe Mi5/6 are treating Boris like a mushroom:
Keeping him in the dark and feeding him bullshit ?
He’s a handy fool to have in your arsenal.

Inappropriate analogy, but here we go anyway:

If a government had spent decades telling you that other countries were out to get you, that they didn't value you and that they just wanted to get something over on you. If they told you the association of other countries were the enemy and you were the good guys. If they told you that everyone was out to get you.

Would you be in Russia or would you be in Brexit Britain?

Grandmabatty

DaisyAnne I took Doodledogs comments to mean that we in the UK don't know half of what is going on while happy to comment that the Russians are in that position.

So did I.

I'd also suggest that people don't want to know what's going on...

Are there any responses from our tory and/or Brexit voters on this thread? What do they think of their Boris being, at the very best, a Russian stooge?

I agree Grandmabatty.

Thank you for starting this thread GillT57

DaisyAnne I took Doodledogs comments to mean that we in the UK don't know half of what is going on while happy to comment that the Russians are in that position.

DaisyAnne

Doodledog

It makes me smile (and not in an amused way) when I hear people go on about how the Russian people don’t know the truth of what is going on.

Are you suggesting they do?

Carol has had a whole slew of rightwingers rubbishing her and her disclosures ever since she first reported the results of her investigations. Pursued by the likes of Aaron Banks, Andrew Neil & Guido Fawkes (Paul Staines, an abhorrent character also in the pay of Russia). The Daily Telegraph was paid by Russia to publish pro Russian stories. The Independent and the Evening Standard are owned by the son of KGB agent. Brexit voters one and all have been particularly happy to cover their ears and eyes at the barest hint of Russian interference in their precious 'victory'.

Are we really surprised that few people were aware of what was going on?

It is a very real threat to us. A vacuum bomb has already been used. Putin is insane and determined to win this even if his country sinks in the process. His citizen will be not allowed to get out soon as there is an exodus of Russians fleeing, and
, those that get out tell of a regime they have experienced over fifteen years as controlling and invasive and that they always knew he was a violently insane leader, but stayed because if the beautiful city, their families and friends.
As for China, look how they treat their own people, what they are doing in Hong Kong, can you really trust them?
These two big powers don’t believe in Human Rights.

Doodledog

It makes me smile (and not in an amused way) when I hear people go on about how the Russian people don’t know the truth of what is going on.

Are you suggesting they do?

Whitewavemark2

MayBee70

And the company that fitted all the electrical things in the No 10 briefing room is based in Moscow.

Why on Earth would you have a Russian company!!

The answer to that question might open a real can of worms WWM.

It makes me smile (and not in an amused way) when I hear people go on about how the Russian people don’t know the truth of what is going on.

Should Johnson be investigated for National Security reasons?

I assume partygate investigations are on -going?

I read that amongst others Australia has sanctioned Lebedev.

Carol Cadwalldre

“Just stumbled across this. I posted a couple of videos of Lord Lebedev on the day he was sworn in.

And look who stepped in to defend the appointment? Russia’s Ministry of Affairs.

‘We obviously need more Russians in Western parliaments’

MayBee70

And the company that fitted all the electrical things in the No 10 briefing room is based in Moscow.

Why on Earth would you have a Russian company!!

maddyone

M0nica

That Putin has been using chemical weapons at a personel level and killing opponents has been well known for ages. Not just Skripol. Before that there was Litvinenko and whatever politicians say, there was a general acceptance that Russian security would be interfering in our elections, or trying to.

This article is well drawn together and explained, but there is nothing in it that was not already well known.

I agree Monica.

To my shame perhaps I didn’t know. Scary to read at 3 a.m.

And the company that fitted all the electrical things in the No 10 briefing room is based in Moscow.

Although shocked to read the detail about his behaviour, I am not surprised about Johnson and the Skripal affair. I'm afraid I have long thought he has no allegiance to anyone or anything, including this country. I hold allegiance in higher regard than the popular patriotism that we have thrown at us all the time. If you look up the meaning of allegiance, it starts with loyalty, faithfulness and fidelity. I wouldn't associate any of those with Johnson.

Whitewavemark2

Interestingly, the Chinese are very much on the fence with this.

I was reading a report by a Chinese official whose conclusion included the following.

There is a possible escalation of the war beyond Ukraine
Will lead to Putin’s defeat.
This will mean that the USA will regain world leadership and a very United west.
A new iron curtain, between democracies and authoritarian states

Growth in the power of the West, in both military strength and the strength and importance of western institutions. Greater hard power and soft

Further isolation of China, as the US, Europe, and also Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Australia turn against China.

"China will not only be encircled militarily ... but also challenged by Western values and systems."

He closes by saying that China has 1-2 WEEKS in which to make a choice. And basically says that China should choose the West, and use its influence over Putin to end the war and bring him to heel. It says that China is the only nation that can.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out and watch to see if China does indeed put pressure on Putin to end the invasion.

I was just listening to a news report about China's view Whitewave and they are not overly happy with Putin. They see him shifting the possibilities for them to do what they want to do in forming or holding at a distance the relationships with the West.

They have so far not agreed to his request to them for arms. They want Taiwan but they do not see it as the same as Ukraine and see him, I understood, as undermining their position.

They could replace the "Swift" system but who would want to be paid in either Chinese or Russian currency.

There is a lot going on.

I think we have all become desensitised to the things that Putin does, or at least we were until now. In fact I ‘m ashamed of the fact that I didn’t react to the poisonings. In retrospect it’s totally chilling.

M0nica

That Putin has been using chemical weapons at a personel level and killing opponents has been well known for ages. Not just Skripol. Before that there was Litvinenko and whatever politicians say, there was a general acceptance that Russian security would be interfering in our elections, or trying to.

This article is well drawn together and explained, but there is nothing in it that was not already well known.

I agree Monica.

Actually, when she was PM, Teresa may instructed the security services not to share all information with Johnson, then her Foreign Secretary.

MerylStreep

Some poster are assuming that Mi5/Mi6 share all intel with foreign secretaries and Prime Ministers.? Mmmmm.

Perhaps, from your obvious position of superior knowledge, you'd like to explain what the purpose of 'intel' is if it isn't shared with at least the PM?

Some poster are assuming that Mi5/Mi6 share all intel with foreign secretaries and Prime Ministers.? Mmmmm.

I agree there are no new revelations in this article, but when joined up, the truth is even worse, so bad that even the right wing press can no longer ignore it.
The meeting that Johnson had with Lebedeve Snr, you know the KGB officer, isn't just a scandal it is a national security failure. The meeting took place without a security protocol, the knowledge of his department officials, or, we must assume, the PM Teresa May. When it became known, Johnson should not have just been sacked, he should have been questioned by the police and the Prime minister. The problem is that by the time The Observer revealed it, Johnson was the Prime Minister