Gender? Sex? Help me out please.

GagaJo, that is classic gaslighting.

You are trying to deflect from the fact that I posted (actually in a conciliatory manner) to say that we just don’t know what would have happened had children in the past been treated in the way modern ones are treated (and vice versa) but was snapped at in a way that proved beyond doubt that trisher had not read my post, but simply reacted negatively. Rather than address that, you claim (erroneously) instead that so-called ‘intersectional feminists’ are usually victims of shouting down. The You Always ‘defence’), also taking in the classic DARVO strategy (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender).

I try really hard to remain calm on these threads, often in the face of quite abusive behaviour - I do not shout people down. My posts are sometimes long, yes; but I’m not the soundbite type, and I try to spell out my points leaving no room for ambiguity, so that they are not twisted into things that I did not say. That is not shouting down. I ask questions to clarify posts from so-called IFs, but they are rarely answered, despite the fact that you regularly question us - often rather rudely - and get carefully worded answers.

It can seem like an echo chamber on these threads (albeit with two distinctly different echoes), and the voices are usually the same ones, but more people will read than post, and I know that other readers can see DARVO tactics for what they are, and that refusal to answer the most fundamental of questions (what do you mean when you say that transwomen ‘are women’? What is a woman?) is rude, and also indicative of a lack of reasoned argument.

The only response we get to posts that explain why we are concerned with some aspects surrounding Trans Rights Activism is that we are prejudiced, phobic etc and the only way the TRA’s arguments are ‘supported’ is with the trotting out of patronising and passive aggressive ‘be kind’ cliches, evasion or insults, depending on who responds. It’s wearisome.

Few parents are insensitive or uncaring for their children. However it doesn't mean that everything they do out of love and care is good for the children.

There was a time when left-handed children were forced to use their right hand. Everyone parents and teachers thought this was for the children's good. We do not do that now and know that it was damaging for the children forced to use their right hands.

If no one batted an eyelid if a biological girl decided to dress and behave in a way that we associate with biological boy, changed her name etc and vice versa. If adults left them alone in the same way we leave children whose sex and gender adults are more comfortable with then they could make their own decisions when they reach 18.

Iam64 I just think that it’s really sad that in the 21st Century yet again there are elements who are trying to erode natal females, dismissing their concerns…

GrannyGravy13

GagaJo

Doodledog, you can't be that lacking in awareness. If anyone (certainly not me) had the time or the inclination to go back through the posts, do you really think it's the intersectional feminist posts that do the majority of rudeness and shouting down?

Yes

There may be more posts from the wrong kind of feminists on the trans threads. That’s because we are the larger group here. It doesn’t mean we are responsible for the majority of rudeness and shouting down.

I’m still waiting for any response to the interim but thorough Cass report from the posters who are offended, dismissive and rude to those of us they dismiss as terfs

GagaJo

Doodledog, you can't be that lacking in awareness. If anyone (certainly not me) had the time or the inclination to go back through the posts, do you really think it's the intersectional feminist posts that do the majority of rudeness and shouting down?

I guess that is what happens when you have decided that intersectional feminsim must be shut down by any means because they dont care about women... Even though an intersectional feminist cares about all women.

GagaJo

Doodledog, you can't be that lacking in awareness. If anyone (certainly not me) had the time or the inclination to go back through the posts, do you really think it's the intersectional feminist posts that do the majority of rudeness and shouting down?

Yes

That is very good news mollygo

Now the conversations can begin on having separate trans categories, it works well in para sport ensuring nobody has an unfair advantage.

Sense and honesty is creeping in!
Florida governor Ron DeSantis has signed a proclamation recognising runner-up Emma Weyant as the winner of the highest US national college swimming title - an event she lost to transgender athlete Lia Thomas

Doodledog, you can't be that lacking in awareness. If anyone (certainly not me) had the time or the inclination to go back through the posts, do you really think it's the intersectional feminist posts that do the majority of rudeness and shouting down?

GrannyGravy13

Saw this just now

It’s appalling, but true. Hard to believe its behaviour is endorsed by some women.

Saw this just now

The whole point of my post was that we can't compare the past with the present as each child only has one experience.

I have long felt that it doesn't matter what people who don't buy into the TRA agenda post - they will be shouted down, often rudely, without the posts being read properly. If I had been in any doubt before, though, I am not now.

Trisher says: You have no idea how many children have questioned their gender and passed safely though a period of uncertainty with or without the help of counselling. Nor how many children have satisfactorily changed their gender.

Actually, neither have you trisher so I’m not sure how you can so rudely question what someone else knows.

Doodledog
FFS, I am acknowledging that we just don't know, but you are still picking at everything I say
Yes DoodleDog.
Nobody knows all the figures, not even xxxxxxx, et al, but at least you acknowledge that and don’t make things up to support what you say.
Galaxy, indeed they haven’t been collecting data properly, as we have been learning more about in recent days.

Obviously that was to trisher, not Galaxy.

Sigh.

FFS, I am acknowledging that we just don't know, but you are still picking at everything I say!

One of the reasons we cant know some of those answers is because they havent been collecting the data properly.

Doodledog

The thing is, trisher, that we just don't know whether the children of previous generations would be offered hormones nowadays, or whether modern children who are offered them would have grown out of a 'phase' if they'd been left to get on with it. Every case only goes one way, doesn't it?

How on earth can you know that Doodledog? You have no idea how many children have questioned their gender and passed safely though a period of uncertainty with or without the help of counselling. Nor how many children have satisfactorily changed their gender.

Doodledog

The thing is, trisher, that we just don't know whether the children of previous generations would be offered hormones nowadays, or whether modern children who are offered them would have grown out of a 'phase' if they'd been left to get on with it. Every case only goes one way, doesn't it?

Sorry - posted too soon. What I mean is that it's not about belittling or taking too seriously - it's more that the first response now seems to be to go straight to 'transition' (in whatever form that takes), and then that option wasn't available, so the children had to grow out with it or deal with it some other way.

None of it is ideal, and the question, to me, is why it can't be ok for people to be who they want to be, without it being tied to an 'identity'.

That is why I keep asking about what is meant by 'woman' in this context. Why does a confused boy feel that he 'is' a woman? What is it that he wants to be, or feels that he is? The same applies to girls and men, obviously. I just don't understand, and whereas it is blindingly obvious that 19th century poetry doesn't give me the answer, I never get far when I ask the very people who push for others to make those changes.

The thing is, trisher, that we just don't know whether the children of previous generations would be offered hormones nowadays, or whether modern children who are offered them would have grown out of a 'phase' if they'd been left to get on with it. Every case only goes one way, doesn't it?

Sorry. 22:02.

According to trisher @ 23:02, everyone knows that the parents of transchildren are thoughtless,uncaring and prepared to hand their children over to anyone.

I’m glad it’s only trisher who thinks so. Most parents take it more seriously than that and many of them accept the irrevocable damage that may be done, so support their children without rushing them into chemical or physical changes.

Yes it’s quite frightening when you think of it.
Thankfully her name shortened easily. I wouldn’t have been so lucky as no one had heard of Mo (Farah) back then.

Another sweeping generalisation trisher? How rude of you to cast aspersions on my sisters feelings. How did you decide my sister only ‘supposedly’ wanted to change gender?

That’s nice trisher.

Chewbacca

Good job your sister wasn't saying that today MollyGo; she'd have been whisked off to a gender dysphoria clinic, given puberty blockers and found herself being counselled for being trans gender.

Of course she would Chewbacca because everyone knows that the parents of transchildren are thoughtless,uncaring and prepared to hand their children over to anyone.

Good job your sister wasn't saying that today MollyGo; she'd have been whisked off to a gender dysphoria clinic, given puberty blockers and found herself being counselled for being trans gender.