Gender? Sex? Help me out please.

Whilst you're here, though, GagaJo, would you please let us know what you understand by the words 'woman' and 'man'? You've always been too busy to do so one other threads, and I'm sure people would be interested to hear your answers.

GagaJo

Not twisting anything Doodledog.

I've heard it all before, from the same people. I know your POV. You know mine. We're not able to persuade each other to a consensus. No point rehashing it.

Splendid. Glad you popped in to let us know.

Ooh, a quiz ?

Why are the new euphemisms for 'female'—’bleeder,’ ‘uterus-haver,’ ‘menstruator’—so degrading to women?
Because the TRA movement is led by misogynists?

Why are trans demands so lopsided, with much demanded of women and very little demanded of men?
See above.

Why do ideologically-noncompliant women take so much more heat from trans activists than violent men?
Again, the reasons are rooted in misogyny and a fear of women. As women have gained rights and shown that they are capable of as much as men, those who believe in male superiority have found themselves on shaky ground, so are finding new ways to undermine women. Also, those who believe in gender can't get their conformist heads around the fact that women are supposed to be compliant, and men are supposed to be dominant, but some just aren't. (I didn't say these were sensible reasons - you didn't specify that they had to be, did you?)

Why are we deferring to the gender identity claims of male rapists and serial killers?
Probably a misunderstanding of the situation, in a similar way to how many people fell for the 'no reference to black bin bags or black coffee' nonsense back in the day.

Why are women’s movements being co-opted?
See above - and also jealousy of the way in which female socialisation tends to encourage co-operative behaviour, so we have been more inclined to 'be kind' and made ourselves easy targets. More fool us, but we live and learn.

Does anyone abuse self-id policies?
Are you kidding? Yes - see Chewbacca's post. Oh, but if a female author uses a plot even remotely like the true story in that report she is castigated fro transphobia.

What’s the difference between a ‘transwoman’ and a man who says he’s a woman?
Is that a riddle? Seriously - It's not for me to say, really.

How is it fair for someone like Lia Thomas to demolish women’s swimming records?
This one's easy. It Is Not Fair.

What's the difference between Rachel Dolezal and Caitlyn Jenner?
Erm, were they both mis-assigned at birth in their different ways? Can I have half a point for that, at least? Caitlin Jenner seems to have at least some sensible views on trans issues, though.

What was wrong with what JK Rowling said?
It was read by lots of people, and made them think about the issues surrounding gender issues? It really annoys TRAs when they are asked to explain why she is so evil? Women shouldn't have the financial power to sue men when they defame or otherwise abuse them, as that upsets the natural order of things?

GagaJo

Not twisting anything Doodledog.

I've heard it all before, from the same people. I know your POV. You know mine. We're not able to persuade each other to a consensus. No point rehashing it.

That’s nice!

Not twisting anything Doodledog.

I've heard it all before, from the same people. I know your POV. You know mine. We're not able to persuade each other to a consensus. No point rehashing it.

Skydancer

Goodness, this is such garbage. I can't be bothered to read any of it.

That’s nice. ?

Rosie51

Chewbacca

Is any body else amused/perplexed that people stroll by a thread, poke their head around the door and shout "You're all boring in here! It's like grounding day!" and then trot off!!! Why would you feel the need to do that? Why not just scroll on and find something else that piques your interest? Nowt as funny as folk!

And now you can add Goodness, this is such garbage. I can't be bothered to read any of it. Some power that, to know something is garbage without even having to read it, or maybe it just demonstrates stupidity?

I would concur with your summary of the unfairness of males competing in womens sports MollyGo and read an excellent report on that that FarNorth provided on "the other thread". The only good thing about this debacle is that it's actually opened up dialogue as to how to proceed in the future. Everyone has been tip toeing around the elephant in the room, trying to pretend that it really wasn't there. But now that the elephant has left a rather significant pile of to be cleared up, it's got people willing to discuss how this could be handled in the future so that everyone, particularly women athletes, get to play on a level playing field.

Goodness, this is such garbage. I can't be bothered to read any of it.

Another good post Doodledog

Sorry, I used one of your points Chewbacca and forgot to acknowledge it. Please don’t accuse me of plagiarism.

How is it fair for someone like Lia Thomas to demolish women’s swimming records?

Well the answer to that is it isn’t fair.
He took drugs-if women had taken drugs they would have been banned.
He had gone through puberty. Science shows that that has lasting effects.
He failed as a swimmer against other males.
Having read that Thomas scored all Penn’s NCAA points it’s even less fair and the college should be ashamed of itself, (probably too much to expect Thomas to be ashamed of himself.)
I feel for his parents-but I have no idea whether they support his cheating.

Any postsers care to post how it is fair and justify it.

Is any body else amused/perplexed that people stroll by a thread, poke their head around the door and shout "You're all boring in here! It's like grounding day!" and then trot off!!! Why would you feel the need to do that? Why not just scroll on and find something else that piques your interest? Nowt as funny as folk!

Well I'm going to take another question off the list: Does anyone abuse self-id policies?

Yes, I believe they do. A good example of this is John Goodier, a many times convicted paedophile who decided that sexual depravity with children wasn't enough and so included his pet Alsation dog. It was only when faced with a lengthy jail sentence that he decided that, actually, he was a woman. Called Claire. And he wanted to be referred to andaddressed as a female and that any prison term be served in a women's jail. Now I believe that, apart from being a piss taker, he's also doing the trans movement a great deal of harm.

That's it, really. It's pretty simple, so there are only so many ways it can be said, however much the situation is twisted and mangled to make it seem more complicated.
I think you've tried every way there is Doodledog, and never yet had a straight answer to any question.

Doodledog???

GagaJo

*what would you talk about if you didn’t keep repeating the same thing, or adding a twist or deviation to make it seem different?*

Oh the irony! This is what the gender critical do on these threads ad infinitum. To the point where even those of us who actively support trans rights give up on contributing because of the repetition.

What I see is those of use who actively support feminism having to repeat ourselves because our posts are twisted, or because we are asked the same questions over and over again, however often we answer them. Our questions (eg 'what is a woman') are ignored, so again, we end up repeating them in the hope of an answer.

It's really not a complicated issue - people are either male or female. There are male and female gametes, and everyone has one type or the other. Gender is a social construct, made up of norms which shift over time, culture and place, but are largely based on sex differences. People can choose to conform to whichever set of these they prefer, or can mix and match - nobody cares. Most people do mix and match, and 'conform' to different gender norms at different times.

Nobody cares, on the whole, unless those who have chosen to conform to norms that they think don't match their sex, and conclude that this means they need to change sex, rather than just cock a snook at the norms. Again, nobody cares much, unless they then start to insist that everyone else should be defined by gender and not by sex, and that traditional sex-based categories (eg for sport, access to safe spaces, in statistical data etc) should be ignored, and the language changed to accommodate their so-called 'gender preferences'. When this happens, feminists, who have often spent decades fighting for the right of women to have safe spaces, single-sex categories of various types and who understand the importance of statistical data in setting social policy, get annoyed, and start fighting back.

That's it, really. It's pretty simple, so there are only so many ways it can be said, however much the situation is twisted and mangled to make it seem more complicated.

GagaJo

*what would you talk about if you didn’t keep repeating the same thing, or adding a twist or deviation to make it seem different?*

Oh the irony! This is what the gender critical do on these threads ad infinitum. To the point where even those of us who actively support trans rights give up on contributing because of the repetition.

It's like Groundhog day without the funny bits

Hi GagaJo. Nice to see you adding your posts. Perhaps you like to answer some of the points raised by Chewbacca earlier today, or even answer my question.
If women are required to be known by body parts or bodily functions because some people don’t understand the meaning of ‘woman’, then, why aren’t you campaigning for men to be known as ejaculators, sperm-producers, erection havers, penis or scrotum-havers. prostrate-problem havers, dangly-bit havers, stand up-p***ers, potential-rapists?
Look forward to hearing from you or trisher on this matter. After all, many men don’t know they have a prostate.

Well said DiamondLily.

what would you talk about if you didn’t keep repeating the same thing, or adding a twist or deviation to make it seem different?

Oh the irony! This is what the gender critical do on these threads ad infinitum. To the point where even those of us who actively support trans rights give up on contributing because of the repetition.

*That’s nice trisher*???
You have my absolute support to be referred to as "Woman" whenever you wish. I knew you couldn’t be generous enough to say all those who wish to be called women without adding another word.
As I said, *That’s nice trisher!*???

Everyone bleeds, if cut, but I assumed this meant bleeding as in menstruating?

If not calling someone a "bleeder" means everyone.

The only people that bleed, with menstruation, are women, born as female..

Mollygo

*Trisher, you can call yourself what you want, nobody’s denying you that right*.
You could be equally generous and allow those who don’t want your definitions to use ‘women’ preferably without having to add AHF so people don’t pop up with ‘women can cover lots of different humans’ .
You could be, but I guess you won’t.
After all, what would you talk about if you didn’t keep repeating the same thing, or adding a twist or deviation to make it seem different?

You have my absolute support to be referred to as "Woman" whenever you wish Mollygo but transmen and non-binary people may bleed and bleeder will cover them so use woman and bleeder if you wish.