Gender? Sex? Help me out please.

Trisher, you can call yourself what you want, nobody’s denying you that right.
You could be equally generous and allow those who don’t want your definitions to use ‘women’ preferably without having to add AHF so people don’t pop up with ‘women can cover lots of different humans’ .
You could be, but I guess you won’t.
After all, what would you talk about if you didn’t keep repeating the same thing, or adding a twist or deviation to make it seem different?

M0nica

Of course there is nothing special about being a menstruator or bleeder, but do you want to be defined by one small part of your body and something that may happen for only half of your life?

I am a women, in every part of my body and have been so since birth, I am not an airfix kit to be taken apart and stuck together with the constructor deciding which bits to include and leave out.

I don't really mind I've been defined as a lot of different things in my life most of the definitions didn't cover all of me, just the part that happened to apply at that time. When I had my first child I was an elderly primigravida. Didn't feel at all old and didn't really feel pregnant at first.
If someone wants to sell me shoes they tend to look at my feet and discuss them. If someone wants to sell me sanitary products they may refer to me bleeding What's the difference?

Of course there is nothing special about being a menstruator or bleeder, but do you want to be defined by one small part of your body and something that may happen for only half of your life?

I am a women, in every part of my body and have been so since birth, I am not an airfix kit to be taken apart and stuck together with the constructor deciding which bits to include and leave out.

There's nothing wrong with menstruating and it is bleeding says trisher. Thank you for allowing me to do so without doing anything wrong.
No.
And if you want to announce it to the whole world on a piece of paper then you have the right to do so. You just don’t have the right to compel anybody else to, Even though you seem to want to be appointed the ruler of what is allowed to be said and what isn’t.

Well I'm not a menstruator any more. Nor are a lot of women. I'm all for using words which break the taboos and restrictions which have been attatched to the functions of a woman's body for far too long. There's nothing wrong with menstruating and it is bleeding.

Mollygo

DiamondLily
But, for me, the good news is that Kings Health Authority (London) are obviously not buying in to all this "correct jargon".

I got a letter today addressed to MRS "DiamondLily", inviting me for my yearly mammogram, as one is due.

They used my proper title, no one suggested using anything else, and that's fine. ?

Nothing about being a bleeder/assigned as female, or that people with chests can take part.
Thank heavens for some common sense in evidence. Hope your mammogram turns out OK.

Hope so.. I hate those things...draping myself over that machine is a pain, as my health/mobility problems make it a real issue.

Hey, ho, though, on we press.

As I say, I'm not a bleeder, menstruator, or cervix person, so I'm just a female, born that way.

All good.

If I demonstrate I'm a demonstrator. If I menstruate I'm a menstruator as for bleeder reminds me of the song Only Women Bleed which I've just listened to and the words are about as non-pc as you can get. Surely somebody should have banned it (He slaps her once or twice) Etta James version www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQvC8ZgWcJA

DiamondLily
But, for me, the good news is that Kings Health Authority (London) are obviously not buying in to all this "correct jargon".

I got a letter today addressed to MRS "DiamondLily", inviting me for my yearly mammogram, as one is due.

They used my proper title, no one suggested using anything else, and that's fine. ?

Nothing about being a bleeder/assigned as female, or that people with chests can take part.
Thank heavens for some common sense in evidence. Hope your mammogram turns out OK.

I don't know, but having needed a full hysterectomy at 30 (lumps on ovaries), I would be a bit miffed at being classed as a bleeder, uterus haver, or menstruator.....none of those things actually apply to me.?

I'm just a female, born that way.

But, for me, the good news is that Kings Health Authority (London) are obviously not buying in to all this "correct jargon".

I got a letter today addressed to MRS "DiamondLily", inviting me for my yearly mammogram, as one is due.

They used my proper title, no one suggested using anything else, and that's fine.?

Nothing about being a bleeder/assigned as female, or that people with chests can take part.

Chewbacca, you didn’t add
Why aren’t men known as ejectors, sperm-producers, erection havers, penis or scrotum-havers. prostrate-problem havers, dangly-bit havers, stand up-p***ers, potential-rapists?
Probably because they think that doesn’t encompass their whole meaning, as the word ‘men’ does.
They don’t want to be named for their bodily parts, or functions or sexual organ issues.
So why think women should be?

I've just spotted this over on GN and thought that it raised some very obvious, but thought provoking questions that could lead to some interesting answers; particularly from trans allies but everyone who might have an opinion:

- Why are the new euphemisms for 'female'—’bleeder,’ ‘uterus-haver,’ ‘menstruator’—so degrading to women?
- Why are trans demands so lopsided, with much demanded of women and very little demanded of men?
- Why do ideologically-noncompliant women take so much more heat from trans activists than violent men?
- Why are we deferring to the gender identity claims of male rapists and serial killers?
- Why are women’s movements being co-opted?
- Does anyone abuse self-id policies?
- What’s the difference between a ‘transwoman’ and a man who says he’s a woman?
- How is it fair for someone like Lia Thomas to demolish women’s swimming records?
- What's the difference between Rachel Dolezal and Caitlyn Jenner?
- What’s the difference between a ‘transwoman’ and a man who says he’s a woman?
- How is it fair for someone like Lia Thomas to demolish women’s swimming records?
- What's the difference between Rachel Dolezal and Caitlyn Jenner?
- What was wrong with what JK Rowling said?

Still really funny (or not) that the ones who are doing the most damage to the trans cause are the ill-intentioned trans and their fans.
If, as I’ve been told on GN, there are thousands of trans and we only hear of the ones who cause damage and those who claim it’s not damage, it’s their right, it’s obvious who is making life difficult for trans and it’s not me!

Just another label to add to terf, transphobe, radical feminist, bigot, "unkind"...... I can cope Iam64!

MOnica, like you I rarely agree with Dominic Lawson but on this article I do.
No doubt someone will be along to tell us this confirms we are right wingers, members of the patriarchy and maybe even evangelical Christian’s of the American variety, you know those who tote guns

Thanks chewbacca I do not often agree with Dominic Lawson, but in this case I do.

Thanks Chestnut, tweaking the crime stats to show that men are committing fewer sex crimes, whilst "women" are committing more, has far reaching consequences for the judicial and prison system.

Thanks for the link chestnut.

Just to throw this into the ring:
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10634127/DOMINIC-LAWSON-police-NHS-insist-male-bodied-rapists-women.html

It takes us back to where we started. Sex is set at or shortly after conception. Gender is merely a social construct.

What we need to be clear about is what traits of a person are physical and arise from the sex they were born - Probably inherent strength and build and what are purely socially defined and which anyone can adopt regardless of sex - what we wear, our social behaviour etc.

Re-stating the questions
Gremlins in auto correct

Mollygo - thanks for reassign the questions.

Thanks for reminding us of the work feminists and the men who supported us, did to establish women's refuges. We raised money. Lobbied the council for one of its large, empty properties.
It isn’t transphobic to acknowledge that the experiences of trans women and women may share some aspects but they aren’t the same. My lived experience as a woman of a similar age to Caitlin Jenner are different. We may share some experiences and the feelings the caused. That could equally be said about the men I share my life with

Thank you Doodledog.

Sexuality has nothing to do with this either, or at least not on the straight or LGB spectrum. Some transwomen identify as lesbians, as they are sexually attracted to women (ie they are heterosexual males). Most, if not all of these are AGF (autogynephiles) who are sexually excited at the thought of being women, and they can get aggressive if women refuse to have sex with them, as refusal to believe that they are female 'bursts their bubble'.

Quite apart from the fact that women's spaces are being lost, with the attendant dangers we have seen in the recent hospital rape, men insisting that they are women means that they are more likely to win at sport, and if they are counted as female in statistics even fewer things are likely to accommodate women, or to pay attention to their needs.

I remember when one of the first women's refuges was set up in Richmond, Surrey. A virtually derelict riverside building was taken over as a temporary shelter. I lived opposite it. My then partner who was handy with a screwdriver and familiar with electrical wiring, etc, volunteered to set up some temporary heating and lighting (he was one of those men who supported what we called, at the time, 'Women's Liberation'). The building was a mess, and I remember distinctly him saying words to the effect that it was ridiculous that there were no established, legal, safe places for abused women and children. Well now there are, and they were hard-won, and not without controversy and opposition either. Yet, here we are having to fight the fight again.

A trans woman with a penis may well not be a threat to women and girls, but that's not the point which is that the abused women and girls need a space that is run by and for them. Trans women also suffer abuse and violence and they need safe spaces too - but why does it have to be women's space? Why is it considered transphobic to recognise that a trans woman's experiences and a woman's experiences will not be the same, and need different approaches in counselling and care?

When we started on this journey of 'Liberation' from male dominance, I never expected that one day we'd have have to defend not only our rights, but the very concept of being a woman.

There was controversy over the occupation in Richmond, some locals were outraged. But there was also support - practical support by way of donations of clothing, bedding, toys and money. Ultimately the women were turfed out (it was an illegal occupation) and a place was found in Chiswick... and that's now part of history. The riverside was redeveloped and there may not be many people left in Richmond who remember this episode. I no longer live there.

I wondered what would happen when it all started to go wrong as it was always going to do, I thought there would be some dramatic wiping of past twitter posts and denial that they ever said that but no they just double down. Its astounding to watch.