Gender? Sex? Help me out please.

Galaxy

I respect gay mens sexuality VS so I am very happy for them to say I dont date women. Any woman who is offended by that is self absorbed at best and homohobic at worst.

I respect gay men's sexuality too and I've never ever in my years of working and socialising in gay places heard anyone say that...

The only time it would be appropriate would be if someone were trying to make an advance on them that was unwanted... they definitely should say that then but that's not the scenario we were talking about.

I'm sorry we couldn't find a way to understand each other properly. It's one of the saddest things about these threads really

God one of these days I will type homophobic correctly

I respect gay mens sexuality VS so I am very happy for them to say I dont date women. Any woman who is offended by that is self absorbed at best and homohobic at worst.

trisher

But who has said anyone should be expected to have sex with anyone else regardless of sex, gender sexual orientation or any other factor it should always be a choice. In fact I can't think why anyone would want to have sex if the other person was reluctant to do so. And if someone insists it is of course rape. Sexual orientation and trans status is irrelevant. No one should be intimidated and no one should be coerced.

Transwomen (and TRAs) have said it. Loudly, aggressively and threateningly to lesbians who (surprise surprise) are not taken in by their female 'presentation' and so burst their AGP bubble.

Galaxy

Indeed expressing your sexuality is bad. Gay men should not be allowed to say they wont date wonen.

Can't you see there is a difference between saying

"I date men"

"I won't date women"

They both express the same thing but one is a positive statement and one is a negative statement

This really isn't a hill I want to die on but, I'm just trying to make what I am saying clear because being understood and taking the time to understand what others actually mean... Matters

The original thought behind this was that saying "I won't date trans people" for no reason other than to shout that out comes accross as discriminotry when there is no reason to do so other than, apparently some trans person somewhere has said people should. So what if someone bonkers says that? They aren't relevant to any of us and we choose who we date.

So personally I think the answer is to stand in your own power and say just that

I get to choose who I date

VioletSky

Dickens I'm really trying here, I agree with you. I just don't feel it is necessary to actually say it.

Can you see the disconnect here?

I think what I can see is that you are attempting to frame the discussion according to what you think should / or shouldn't be said.

Yes, I could have been 'kind' and said what has repeatedly been said, that who you have sex with is your personal choice. Which we all know.

But I went a step further to illustrate a point about choice - to demonstrate that sexual preference is innate, almost instinctive, certainly not easily defined... and not necessarily in tune with one's cultural, societal or political outlook.

... and you disapprove. Which you are entitled to do. And if, as you say, you understand why I responded the way I did, then you will realise that I wasn't deliberately trying to be unkind. And perhaps I should have made it clear that the overweight men I was referring to are those who showed an interest in me... which is why I said maybe I didn't meet the 'right' overweight man.

And neither am I being obtuse. I know full well how you think these discussions should be carried out.

Indeed expressing your sexuality is bad. Gay men should not be allowed to say they wont date wonen.

Mollygo

You have literally just said what I have been trying to say.

There is no need to say "I won't date (insert marginalised group)" you just don't do it

VS you live in a very strange world.
I never asked my potential boyfriends if they were gay, straight, Roman Catholic, Protestant or Jewish so I never had to say I don’t date any of those groups. I had other reasons for not continuing to date e.g. personal hygiene, wandering hands etc. That’s personal choice not discrimination.
My GC don’t ask whether potential dates belong to any particular group so can’t refuse to date them on those grounds. Granted if my GD discovered the man she thought she was dating was a woman, she would back off, but that’s because she’s not Lesbian. They might continue as friends, but that’s different.
Did you ever really walk round saying who you don’t date? Did you ask potential dates if they belong to a particular group and then announce that you won’t date them because of that?

Galaxy

Are you saying lesbians and gay men should go back in the closet VS. Shhh dont mention that you are only attracted to women.

What?

No

Because I grew up with some of then

But who has said anyone should be expected to have sex with anyone else regardless of sex, gender sexual orientation or any other factor it should always be a choice. In fact I can't think why anyone would want to have sex if the other person was reluctant to do so. And if someone insists it is of course rape. Sexual orientation and trans status is irrelevant. No one should be intimidated and no one should be coerced.

Thank you, GG13

Another well expressed intelligent post Doodledog ???

It's not about 'just not dating them'. And it's not about not usually fancying people with red hair, or beer bellies and then falling in love with a fat ginger bloke, or even arranging to meet to have sex with someone and finding that they are not really your usual type. It's about going on a site to meet a partner - possibly casually, arranging to meet them then discovering that they are not the sex that attracts you sexually, and then being abused and/or threatened for not having sex with them.

Most people are attracted to one sex or the other, although obviously bisexual people can be attracted to both. How hard can it be to realise that being expected to have sex with someone from the sex you don't fancy is unreasonable to say the least? Would those who seem to think that lesbians shouldn't 'be unkind' to men who want to have sex with them go ahead and do it anyway sooner than 'make someone feel bad about themselves'?

I imagine that the majority of Gransnetters are old white folk, but not billionaire newspaper proprietors.

GagaJo

Rosie51

VS and GagaJo you are obviously bisexual so will include both sexes in your dating pool.

GJ If your lesbian friends are open to sex with men then they're bisexual, they are not lesbians who are homosexual women. The same as any gay men that will have sex with women, they're bisexual not homosexual men.

You don't get to label anyone other than yourself Rosie. That's just how it is.

I'd like to see you tell some of my lezzer mates they're not lesbian because they've dated men. ?

Oh OK, I get it.

I'm a vegan who enjoys, dairy, meat and fish as well as plants.

Can I just say that there is now a phobia being raised on this thread about old rich white women and men.

I am not ashamed to admit to DH and I being in that demographic.

I would also like to point out that two couples who have been friends of ours for over thirty years are - a married female couple and a married male couple.

Perhaps she's thinking of Rupert Murdoch or the remaining Barclay twin.

VioletSky

varian that's the truth

There is usually a few very old very rich white men behind it all somewhere and the odd old white rich woman who puts profit before people

VioletSky - why do you say old?

Galaxy

Are you saying lesbians and gay men should go back in the closet VS. Shhh dont mention that you are only attracted to women.

Why would you say that Galaxy?

VioletSky

varian that's the truth

There is usually a few very old very rich white men behind it all somewhere and the odd old white rich woman who puts profit before people

This is another statement that needs some evidence to support - or it makes no sense

Are you saying lesbians and gay men should go back in the closet VS. Shhh dont mention that you are only attracted to women.

I am a woman I dont feel bad as part of that demographic because gay men dont want to date me.

Dickens I'm really trying here, I agree with you. I just don't feel it is necessary to actually say it.

Can you see the disconnect here?