Gender? Sex? Help me out please.

That's true Doodledog, but it would be disingenuous () to think that the comments about trans people are not informed by the fact that they are transitioning.

If a woman had been described as looking like something from the Les Dawson show, lots of women on here would be rightly angry. But say it about a trans woman, and that's acceptable, apparently.

I’m not defending those comments, but you also see threads about how women should show their curves instead of wearing baggy clothing, and whether women should be spending money on beauty treatments in a recession. It may be more about aesthetics than prejudice.

I started this thread so I feel justified in adding this.

There are a couple of trans threads going today. We're seeing comments like "why is is always the big muscular guys who want to transition, eh? Answer me that!" or "I saw a person I thought was trans who wasn't very well dressed or made up, how sad it was".

So I still don't know the way I feel about trans women in sport, or shared toilets, or self ID, or any of that kind of thing, but I know there is a lot of prejudice out there for people who are just trying to live their lives.

I'd say that makes KS all four Mollygo, no wonder there are women not wanting to vote Labour.

Me too Witzend and that was hard enough wasn't it.

Mollygo

FarNorth

Keir Starmer says that he agrees with the existence of women's safe spaces ---- and also transwomen (men) are women.
?

Which makes him a liar, deluded, ignorant of basic biology or scared of the trans activists (who do not represent the wishes of all trans). Imagine the uproar from GN on the politics threads if Boris had said that. ??

Which of Boris' multitude of lies would you like us to start with? A bit of an own goal there Mollygo.

Paddyann54, exactly. Urban myths whipped up to get feminists into a frenzy and distract them from real challenges to equal rights.

I must say I’m nostalgic for the days when ‘gender’ was largely used in relation to the foreign language nouns - M, F, N - that I had to learn.

FarNorth

Keir Starmer says that he agrees with the existence of women's safe spaces ---- and also transwomen (men) are women.
?

Which makes him a liar, deluded, ignorant of basic biology or scared of the trans activists (who do not represent the wishes of all trans). Imagine the uproar from GN on the politics threads if Boris had said that. ??

Keir Starmer says that he agrees with the existence of women's safe spaces ---- and also transwomen (men) are women.
?

I’ve just read something on here which basically says, If it’s happened I always know someone it’s happened to. If I haven’t heard if it, it hasn’t happened.
Wonderful! ??

Nor have I heard anyone online or in the press saying there were problems with trans men in womans spaces.

The only issue with transmen (females) being in female spaces is if they look convincing enough as men that they cause alarm.

Here is an interesting article about a biological male who has been given a Woman of the Year award.

It's worth reading all of it.

www.dailywire.com/news/usa-today-names-women-of-the-year-heres-one-of-them

paddyann54

I dont know anyone who has transitioned from male to female but I know 3 young people who were born and raised as girls who are now boys.
Young men.. though none have reached the surgery stage so I imagine if they use mens toilets they would have to use the cubicle
.I've never heard any complaints about trans men in mens spaces ...but then Ive never heard personal complaints about trans women either .
Nor have I heard anyone online or in the press saying there were problems with trans men in womans spaces.
I think its an urban myth that has taken root and is used to attack the trans community
.Live and let live and understand that life has always changed ,mainly with opposition.We're all old enough to remember gay bashing ,outrage at same sex marriages etc.This too will pass in time ,its mainly older generations who close their minds to change .In a few yar ,supposing we're still here it will be normal

Well said

doodledog good point

VioletSky

I've explained several times why I don't agree and don't think it's a good use of my time to go over it again

So why bother replying to my post of 23.01?

I dont know anyone who has transitioned from male to female but I know 3 young people who were born and raised as girls who are now boys.
Young men.. though none have reached the surgery stage so I imagine if they use mens toilets they would have to use the cubicle
.I've never heard any complaints about trans men in mens spaces ...but then Ive never heard personal complaints about trans women either .
Nor have I heard anyone online or in the press saying there were problems with trans men in womans spaces.
I think its an urban myth that has taken root and is used to attack the trans community
.Live and let live and understand that life has always changed ,mainly with opposition.We're all old enough to remember gay bashing ,outrage at same sex marriages etc.This too will pass in time ,its mainly older generations who close their minds to change .In a few yar ,supposing we're still here it will be normal

I've explained several times why I don't agree and don't think it's a good use of my time to go over it again

*So I would expect her to follow her own rules now or otherwise it just makes me dislike her.

I can actually admire people who take a stand for their beliefs even if I don't agree with when... When they do so honestly and compassionately*

What are her own rules, though? I don't get it.

Similarly, if they are different, what beliefs do you mean? If you are talking about trans issues, she was never pretending to be trans - she was simply using a different name to differentiate one set of books from another - it's not the same thing at all.

Mollygo

trisher

I think it is concerning that staff are not given proper training in hospitals on how to deal with patients but I don't think that is the fault of transpeople.
Who on here has said lack of training was the fault of transpeople?
The fault belongs to the people who insist that a man displaying blatantly as a male in a place with vulnerable women cannot be moved because he says he is a woman.
And many of those saying that self ID is OK without qualification, are not trans unless there’s something trisher isn’t telling us.

Let’s blame the politicians who are afraid to admit the biological truth for fear of attack.
Let’s blame the shortage of funds in the NHS for lack of training
But we mustn’t blame those who support the transwomen using their claims to cheat in sport and jobs, and gain access to womens safe spaces.
Those tw and their supporters including some on GN who by their actions do more damage to the cause of transwomen than anyone else but who refuse to admit it.

I wish I knew who these people are. I've never met any. If staff don't have knowledge of the law or the ability to succesfullly move someone who is being difficult, whose fault is that?
No-one I have seen on any thread has said that transwomen should be in sports or in any space where women do not want them.
This seems to be a perpetual theme on these threads.. That individual instances that are undoubtedly upsetting are somehow representative of the whole situation, but with little or no evidence to support the idea.
The other itheme is blaming anyone who tries to present a caring and logical approach to the problem and making wild accusations about what they have actually said. It's actually rather sad and it doesn't make for good discussion.
.

doodledog that's kind of the reverse

I'm not sure why jk Rowling would change her sex to write given her views and her dislike of being forced to do that in the past.

What I think of doing that is irrelevant because I'm not using my platform to influence the general public on this issue.

So I would expect her to follow her own rules now or otherwise it just makes me dislike her.

I can actually admire people who take a stand for their beliefs even if I don't agree with when... When they do so honestly and compassionately

Otherwise I don't think very much of them

Thanks trisher I don't have a giid memory for names, not sure where that one came from

Her ex husnband apparently has drug problems
And?

None of this is relevant to volver's question

Apologies volver
Meandering off down byways

Her married name was Arantes. Her daughter uses it. Her ex husnband apparently has drug problems.

None of this is relevant to volver's question; but my understanding was that JKR decided to publish the Strike books as Robert Galbraith as she wanted to see if she could succeed as a detective writer without the halo effect of her success with Harry Potter.

I'm not sure how that was going to work, as it very soon became common knowledge that it was her pen name, but I don't think it matters. Several authors write under more than one name, and it is ironic that it is those who are most vociferous about sex and gender being changeable who are objecting to her choosing a male name.

As for carers, doctors or anyone else being male, of course that is fine. If a woman would prefer to be treated or cared for by a female, she can ask, and male staff carrying out intimate exams usually have a chaperone. It is when a man says that he is a woman that it could pose a problem. Does anyone know whether in that case there is a requirement for a chaperone to be present when a female patient is being intimately examined?