FannyCornforth
I did find it odd that I’d never seen you on the trans based threads volver
I haven’t read the thread yet.
Yeah, and I don't think I'll be on any more. 
GNHQ have commented on this thread. Read here.
Now I might be asking for trouble but I’m looking for information.
On two threads active today about politics, we’ve had posts very quickly about gender politics. I’m a bit in the dark and I tend to stay off the gender politics threads as they tend to get heated. (Yes, this is me, really.
)
So I’m looking for information on this issue and why people are so fired up about it. No judgement please, I am just trying to understand this.
FannyCornforth
I did find it odd that I’d never seen you on the trans based threads volver
I haven’t read the thread yet.
Yeah, and I don't think I'll be on any more. 
To be honest I do think it is the latest "thing".
Most commenting haven't had any negative impact to their lives due to the existence of trans people or, at least not tangible negative impacts, just ones they have had to search for that they believe gives them some sort of loss I can't see.
It's a bit like how when a news article warns of a shortage of something, some people then rush out and buy many more of that something than they need, thus causing a shortage.
A self fulfilled prophesy.
Eventually problems will be ironed out, people will feel safe and fear will be forgotten.
What slows that down is when you enter these discussions and realise that no matter how much you bend and compromise, others refuse to give anything at all.
When trans women believe they are women, when they feel it in their souls, when therapy to make that go away doesn't work and when they are willing to compromise on those strongly held beliefs to help others feel safe because they only want to be equal.... Well it's worth finding those compromises in my opinion.
Go and read "Women Won't Wheesht". Try educating yourself. You know and I know that no-one can change sex, and I think a lot of TRA's know, too. Gametes!
I did find it odd that I’d never seen you on the trans based threads volver
I haven’t read the thread yet.
That is helpful. Thank you!
It is also biased?
So-called 'gender-critical feminists' believe that feminism is about women, and that self-identifying transwomen have different needs from those of people who have been socialised as women, and lived as girls, with all of the relative disadvantage that that can entail. For this reason we do not buy into the notion that TWAW (transwomen are women) but would prefer them to be a separate group with equal rights and protections, but not to be included in things like female sports teams and not to have access to places such as female DV hostels, where they can cause serious distress to the women for whom these spaces were intended.
They also point to the fact that some only self identify when it suits them, such as when they are about to be sentenced for a sex crime and prefer the idea of going to a women's prison where they won't be at the bottom of the pecking order, and that such self-identification can be a voyeur's dream, eg when men access female changing rooms and stand next to women and girls in states of undress.
Many lesbians have suffered abuse for not wanting to have sex with transwomen, despite the fact that they (the TW) have penises, and lesbians do not, on the whole, want to have sex with people with penises. There is a condition called autogynephilia, which causes men to 'get off on' being taken as women, and such men often target lesbians because they are heterosexual males, then get violently offended when they are rejected as sexual partners as it bursts their autogynephile bubble.
All of this is unfortunate for the TW who just want to 'live as' though they are female (whatever that means, as women live lives in diverse ways). They (or many of them) are also critical of TRAs (Trans Rights Activists) who make their lives more difficult, and also of Stonewall, which has infiltrated places such as universities and local councils with its insistence on No Debate and the threat of 'exposure' as transphobic to any institution which does not adhere to its Diversity Champion rules, which include things like putting pronouns on email signatures and Teams/Zoom screens. This can be 'outing' for trans and non-binary people who prefer to be private about these things, and offensive to those who do not accept that there is such a thing as a 'gender pronoun' but see them as markers of sex.
Research into sex-based areas such as equal pay, access to housing/education/pensions and so on can be skewed when people self-identify on the questionnaires. This has obvious ramifications for policies that are intended to equalise life for women (or, more rarely, for men).
If words to describe women and mothers are dropped from the language, and others such as 'female' are corrupted to include 'male', there will be no way for those whom we now call women to discuss their lives in a meaningful way.
Finally (for now!) gender-critical feminists reject the idea that gender is fixed, and point to the fact that there is no need for young people to 'change gender' in order to 'behave like' the other gender. They can just do it. All we need to do is to break down the links between gender and sex, so that people can pick and mix their 'presentation' and behaviour, perhaps in more obvious ways than most of us already do, but without taking hormones or having surgery to reinforce their choices.
This would prevent the high numbers of retransitioners who are now making their voices heard, by make changing their minds much easier.
VioletSky stated
"Jk Rowling has been a huge disappointment to me as she has to many using her social media presence to influence politics and gender politics as she has.
Did you know, about the same time she became involved with all this, she was releasing a book under a male pseudonym about a man dressing as a woman to murder women?
Something about it all just doesn't sit right with me"
That statement is untrue. VioelSky It would perhaps be better if you actually read the book before repeating other people's take on it.
Gossamerbeynon1945
Apparently, 15 year old girls are now having double mastectomies. Did all these politicians miss their biology lessons in school. Biggest load of rubbish I have ever read - look at Robert Winston on Question Time. He says what I think, and he is an expert! no-one can change sex - it's impossible!
Could we possibly see the evidence for this?
Has anyone noticed those who are intersectional feminists have posted mostly factual information ( OK I admit to a shot at the media I do hate MSM) but the gender critical are bringing in other factors.
The idea that transwomen are part of the patriarchy is ludicrous. They belong to a minority group with higher than average rates of abuse and attack. The patriarchy is mostly rich white men.
That's very worrying Gossamerbeynon.
For some of the history check out the Michigans women's music festival. It started in 1976 and there were transwomen there until it was decided the festival was only for "womyn born womyn". This video is interesting www.advocate.com/film/2016/5/30/trans-filmmakers-tell-history-camp-trans
The festival no longer happens.
Apparently, 15 year old girls are now having double mastectomies. Did all these politicians miss their biology lessons in school. Biggest load of rubbish I have ever read - look at Robert Winston on Question Time. He says what I think, and he is an expert! no-one can change sex - it's impossible!
Good point Mollygo. There seem to be a lot of angry testosterone fuelled transwomen about.
overall I wouldn't say it's confrontational volver, there are a lot of very sensible and well explained points of view being expressed.
All political parties need to appeal to the electorate Gill. I can understand why Labour may be losing women's support.
Because the patriarchy control the media. The media present transwomen as a problem and some people believe it.
The women (often but not exclusively vulnerable) who are affected by the actions of a minority of transwomen also believe it, but are shouted down by women who unfortunately see any criticism of any transwomen as criticism of the whole group and go on the attack.
The problem with claiming control by the patriarchy is that patriarchy refers to males, and owing to their gametes, that includes transwomen.
Any thoughts on those who regret gender reassignment surgery? I seem to have read about this being an issue.
Oh I'm tough 
Jk Rowling has been a huge disappointment to me as she has to many using her social media presence to influence politics and gender politics as she has.
Did you know, about the same time she became involved with all this, she was releasing a book under a male pseudonym about a man dressing as a woman to murder women?
Something about it all just doesn't sit right with me
volver hope you've brought your hard hat along!!
Transmen and non-binary people are seldom mentioned in the debate. The number of transmen is increasing and a number of young people are becoming non-binary. They refuse to present as either gender. They choose non-gendered names, ask that the pronoun they be used instead of he or she, and dress as they will. AJ on Pottery Throwdown is non-binary.
I didn't actually know I was an intersectional feminist until learning it on gransnet... which I'm grateful for
I've learnt quite a lot really.
Before I was just going on the evidence of my eyes and ears when I saw a trans person and the truth of who they really are
GillT57
That's interesting volver, I too would really like to understand. I appreciate that some subjects are all consuming for people; but I don't see why a lot of young women are prepared to throw the elderly, unwell, disabled, school children, disadvantaged overseas etc., to the wolves by voting Tory just because the Tories are saying that they know what a woman is. Are they saying that the rights of trans people over ride those of others who will likely suffer if we have by a thousand cuts again by returning another Tory government?
Because the patriarchy control the media. The media present transwomen as a problem and some people believe it.
trisher
Transactivists have become much more active and vociferous in the last decade and have demanded that they be permitted to transition without being considered a medical problem or needing to go through a lengthy and complicated process. A campaign for self ID began. Basically most trans people wanted a simple legal process that would be something like changing your name by deed poll.Self ID was seized on and the media chose to present it as being men choosing to just say they were women. At the same time a group of people began questioning the presence of transwomen in spaces and events for women. The women who chose to do this have been called gender critical feminists (sometimes the term radical is included I refuse to use this. There is nothing radical about rejecting progress). Intersectional feminists recognise transwomen as women, partly because how on earth can you tell? and partly because they recognise degrees of privilege and oppression and transwomen have undoubtedly suffered oppression.
There how's that?
That is helpful. Thank you!
Jings, its a minefield...
I went and had a look at the Vagina Museum thread Smileless 2012, thank you. I hadn't looked before as the title didn't appeal!
It's quite confrontational...
Transactivists have become much more active and vociferous in the last decade and have demanded that they be permitted to transition without being considered a medical problem or needing to go through a lengthy and complicated process. A campaign for self ID began. Basically most trans people wanted a simple legal process that would be something like changing your name by deed poll.Self ID was seized on and the media chose to present it as being men choosing to just say they were women. At the same time a group of people began questioning the presence of transwomen in spaces and events for women. The women who chose to do this have been called gender critical feminists (sometimes the term radical is included I refuse to use this. There is nothing radical about rejecting progress). Intersectional feminists recognise transwomen as women, partly because how on earth can you tell? and partly because they recognise degrees of privilege and oppression and transwomen have undoubtedly suffered oppression.
There how's that?
That's a very worrying thought GillT57
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