Gender? Sex? Help me out please.

Doodledog

Chewbacca
The problem on here is that some people don't understand what having principles means.

The irony of that comment doesn't escape me.
Nor me.
Nor me.

Chewbacca

^The problem on here is that some people don't understand what having principles means.^

The irony of that comment doesn't escape me.

Nor me.

See Doodledog you persist in telling me on-line is just as good although I have said for me it isn't. Wouldn't it be nice if you actually listened to my views for once

trisher, I am not telling you how you feel about online performances versus in-person. An hour ago, however, you had 'no idea' who the poet was, but now you are disappointed that you were unable to go to Newcastle to see him. Forgive me if I am baffled - the show would have been yesterday, so expressing disappointment today seems . . . odd.

I thought it might be some consolation, as you would have missed the performance anyway, to know that you can catch up online, but clearly I am wrong.

As I keep saying, I have passed no comment on my feelings about the cancellation, but you have told me how I feel, and that it is akin to promoting violence. Not true, and offensive.

I see there is no comment about Rosie's question regarding the 'cis man nut job' remarks by GagaJo. I also pointed out that if any of the so-called GC feminists had used those terms there would have been fury, but predictably, the awkward questions are ignored in favour of attempts to catch us out in slips of the tongue, or goading us into saying something you can have deleted.

The problem on here is that some people don't understand what having principles means.

The irony of that comment doesn't escape me.

trisher Even the organisers seem to think it will now reach a wider audience. Of course online threats of violence are wrong whoever they're targeted at. It's a shame it won't be perfect for you, but for many who couldn't make it to the venue it will be lovely. Can you not find it in yourself to be pleased they'll have an opportunity, even if the backstory behind the reason is wrong?
Not if violence is involved.
I could say that JKR has enough money to be able to spread her views however she wishes . Would that make it OK for her to be threatened on social media? I think not.
The problem on here is that some people don't understand what having principles means.

Rosie51

^If they have been cancelled because the organisation hosting the event didn't want them there that is the organisation's right.^ so an invitation to participate is withdrawn because of violent protest and threats, and you think that's OK because the organisation hosting the event are scared into changing their mind?

No if there was violence or threats involved it was wrong if the organisation just decided they didn't want them that is their right.

If they have been cancelled because the organisation hosting the event didn't want them there that is the organisation's right. so an invitation to participate is withdrawn because of violent protest and threats, and you think that's OK because the organisation hosting the event are scared into changing their mind?

Trisher you are unbelievable!

The first day of the festival was originally intended to take place at Newcastle Library on Wednesday 23 March 2022, but to ensure the safety of everyone involved and to reach as wide an audience as possible will now take place online - date to be confirmed. We will be in touch with ticket bookers next week.

trisher Even the organisers seem to think it will now reach a wider audience. Of course online threats of violence are wrong whoever they're targeted at. It's a shame it won't be perfect for you, but for many who couldn't make it to the venue it will be lovely. Can you not find it in yourself to be pleased they'll have an opportunity, even if the backstory behind the reason is wrong?

You praise GagaJo for her posting on these threads. Yet you've made no comment on her branding a transwoman these organisers invited to headline the poetry reading at a 'celebrating women event' "a nut job cis man" although I suspect she doesn't know the transwoman personally. Do you agree with her assessment? Would you have commented if someone other than GagaJo had called the performer such derogatory names?

Chewbacca

^Apparently though it''s OK to threaten women who invited someone to attend that people on^ social media don't like.

Go tell that to Maya Forstater, JKRowling, Kathleen Stock, Marion Miller, Raquel Rosairo Sanchez, Jen Ives, Posie Parker, Emma Nicholson, Kara Dansky, Ceri Black, Issy Belstaffie, Miriam Cates, Sarah Ditum, Emma Webb, Jenni Murray, Helena Kennedy, Claudia Clare, Merci Meroki

They all might have a tale to tell about what it's like to be cancelled.

How many times Chewbacca if they have been cancelled because of threats of violence on social media I completely condemn it. If they have been cancelled because the organisation hosting the event didn't want them there that is the organisation's right.
Perhaps one link to something that didn't happen because of threats of violence?

Apparently though it''s OK to threaten women who invited someone to attend that people on social media don't like.

Go tell that to Maya Forstater, JKRowling, Kathleen Stock, Marion Miller, Raquel Rosairo Sanchez, Jen Ives, Posie Parker, Emma Nicholson, Kara Dansky, Ceri Black, Issy Belstaffie, Miriam Cates, Sarah Ditum, Emma Webb, Jenni Murray, Helena Kennedy, Claudia Clare, Merci Meroki

They all might have a tale to tell about what it's like to be cancelled.

Mollygo

Trisher posted that she doesn’t support
Anyone who tries to justify or excuse the violence and threats
So she obviously means anyone who supports all TW instead of the more moderate posters who only support those TW who mean no harm, and use no violence or threats towards AHF women and who seek to defend AHF against such violence or threats.
Now who could that be on here?

I’m unmoved about you having no respect for me. For me respect is a two way POV, as is lack of respect.

Chewbacca when you posted about the event being conducted online due to intimidation and threats, I think your comment
I’m taking that as being a sign that the Jo Public's voice is getting louder and louder and they're being heard. It's somewhat disingenuous to complain bitterly when the voice of a cis man nut job is criticised on line but its hunky dory and fair game when JKRowling suffers far worse. is 100% accurate.

Still tryiing to tell me what I think I see.

Doodledog

No, no comments about that. I was just responding to your misunderstanding of the situation - based on your assertion that you would 'never know' how good it might have been. You can if you want to .

And don't be silly - nobody has justified threats of violence. You really are making yourself look foolish now.

See Doodledog you persist in telling me on-line is just as good although I have said for me it isn't. Wouldn't it be nice ifyou actually listened to my views for once.

Trisher posted that she doesn’t support
Anyone who tries to justify or excuse the violence and threats
So she obviously means anyone who supports all TW instead of the more moderate posters who only support those TW who mean no harm, and use no violence or threats towards AHF women and who seek to defend AHF against such violence or threats.
Now who could that be on here?

I’m unmoved about you having no respect for me. For me respect is a two way POV, as is lack of respect.

Chewbacca when you posted about the event being conducted online due to intimidation and threats, I think your comment
I’m taking that as being a sign that the Jo Public's voice is getting louder and louder and they're being heard. It's somewhat disingenuous to complain bitterly when the voice of a cis man nut job is criticised on line but its hunky dory and fair game when JKRowling suffers far worse. is 100% accurate.

I don't think you are being accused of anything I posted earlier a link to a statement that said the event had been cancelled because of the violence and threats on social media.
I fully expected that there would be condemnation about those threats and the cancellation of an event that was organised and featured mostly women. Apparently though it''s OK to threaten women who invited someone to attend that people on social media don't like.
Now I have absolutely no idea about the invited person. My concern is the level of violence which is acceptable by some people as long as it is aimed at certain people and not at others. And if Jo Public is going to stop women doing what they want well I'm sorry I am going to stand against Joe Public (man''s name anyway).
There is no justification for threats of violence to anyone whatever their views. I have said this many times but it falls on deaf ears on here because I don't like JKR (which is a bit like not believing in God for some people) Much as I dislike her I have never advocated or supported threats against her. All violence is wrong.
I don't particularly care about the voice of the person who seems to be the focus of this thread now. I do care about the women involved and I care about threats, whoever they are made to, or whoever made them, especially when they cause events to be cancelled.

No, no comments about that. I was just responding to your misunderstanding of the situation - based on your assertion that you would 'never know' how good it might have been. You can if you want to .

And don't be silly - nobody has justified threats of violence. You really are making yourself look foolish now.

What now?? Am I really being accused of transphobia for posting about an event that, unknown to me, had been cancelled 5 days before I even knew about it and that a trans allies had dismissed as being attended by a nut job cis man ? Really? I know I've said that I've frequently been gaslit for "mis remembering" and "deliberately misunderstanding" posts, but this has to be the best gaslighting ever! The only solace that I can glean from the mind bending manipulation on here is that, if trisher is correct, and the event has been conducted online due to intimidation and threats, I'm taking that as being a sign that the Jo Public's voice is getting louder and louder and they're being heard. It's somewhat disingenuous to complain bitterly when the voice of a cis man nut job is criticised on line but its hunky dory and fair game when JKRowling suffers far worse. Gas lighting par excellence. Incredible.

* Thanks Mollygo you've just alligned my views with those of murderers.*

No trisher! You’ve twisted my words!
Shocking! I’ve read how you accuse people of doing that to you.
I just asked if you really meant what you said, even when it applied to violence against AHF women by men or TW, and gave some examples.
Evidently not.

So all I should be concerned with is if I can get a ticket? That's a pretty self centred philosophy isn't it?
No comments about the other women who should have performed Doodledog Oh I forgot it's going to be so much better hearing them on-line isn't it? If it happens of course.

Thanks Mollygo you've just alligned my views with those of murderers. Which goes to show as I said earlier that it doesn't matter how many times I post that all abuse is wrong, that all violence is wrong and no one should be silenced, some people never listen.

Really any respect I had for you lot as women who perhaps were afraid and just had the best interests of others at their heart has totally disappeared. Anyone who tries to justify or excuse the violence and threats which caused this event to be cancelled (or moved on-line) is as bad as those who made any threats at all on social media regardless of who they were made to.

Carry on Doodledog I love seeing you trying to justfy this on the grounds of inclusivity.

I'm not. I have already said twice that inclusivity wasn't the driver. It's a side effect of what has happened, but not necessarily a negative one.

I don't need to justify anything. I got involved in this part of the thread when Chewbacca posted about A B-S, and GJ jumped on us for 'catastrophising'. It seemed to me a perfect example of how so-called 'cis men' are using the TWAW and No Debate climate to dominate what are supposedly women's events, and GJ's unjustified anger at our justified annoyance was amusing, as it highlighted how difficult these things can be. Which is what we have been saying since what feels like the dawn of time.

I haven't commented on my opinion about the reason for the event being moved online. You have told me what I think, but that may or may not be true. What I have said is that the end result does not mean that 'thanks to the abuse, you will never know' how good A B-S is as a poet. You can get a ticket to see the event online, as can more people than would have been able to attend in-person. I'm not the one who's catastrophising - all's well that ends well, no?

Yes trisher, although JKR has already had so many threats to her safety and some of those are ongoing thanks to . . .

Is your version of inclusivity that because women have had to, and are still having to, deal with threats where their safety cannot be guaranteed, but haven’t all been moved online, that’s a reason for men to be treated like that?
Weird point of view, but it happens.
Jo Cox was shot and stabbed. David Amess was stabbed.

Doodledog

The thing is that the Herstory event has not been cancelled.

As I said, the driver wasn't inclusivity in this case, but inclusivity will have been achieved by moving it online. Yes, there are things that get lost by moving away from in-person events, and those who can access those (by virtue of being able-bodied, or of living somewhere with good transport, or of being able to afford a car, or of not having dependents, or many of the other things that prevent others from going out) will miss them. Others will cheer, however, so maybe lower your blood pressure by giving them a passing thought instead of raging against the fact that a 'cis man' who is, by your own assessment 'a bit of a prat' has been moved online, not cancelled. He's probably saving a fortune in expenses and will reach a wider audience so will sell more books.

Actually as nodate has been set for the on-line performance and the live one should have been yesterday it has not simply been moved on-line. That wold have meant it happened yesterday. It didn't. Carry on Doodledog I love seeing you trying to justfy this on the grounds of inclusivity.
Let's propose an alternative. If JKR had been invited to take part in an event and that was moved on-line because she had been threatened and her safety couldn't be guaranteed would that be better?

The thing is that the Herstory event has not been cancelled.

As I said, the driver wasn't inclusivity in this case, but inclusivity will have been achieved by moving it online. Yes, there are things that get lost by moving away from in-person events, and those who can access those (by virtue of being able-bodied, or of living somewhere with good transport, or of being able to afford a car, or of not having dependents, or many of the other things that prevent others from going out) will miss them. Others will cheer, however, so maybe lower your blood pressure by giving them a passing thought instead of raging against the fact that a 'cis man' who is, by your own assessment 'a bit of a prat' has been moved online, not cancelled. He's probably saving a fortune in expenses and will reach a wider audience so will sell more books.

Trisher @12:31
*I'm quite happy to reject all violence,
all hatred, all discrimination and any other speech or action which causes harm to anyone no matter what their gender or sex.*
Right, so along with all the ‘intersectional’ jargon you would stand up and say
- you reject discrimination perpetrated against natal females by TW and their supporters in cases of ’cancelling’ women like Kathleen Stock?
-you reject violence by some TW against women.
-you reject the hatred towards natal women displayed by TRA?
That’s really good news.

trisher

Mollygo

Trisher, you posted these words @ 12:31, *
So carry on trying to justify the unjustifiable.
Sadly, I’m sure you will.

I'm sure if you think having women's events cancelled is OK you will think so. I'm not sure how that equates with feminism though, so perhaps you can explain.

You know full well that's not what Mollygo thinks. You know what she was saying quoting your own words back to you. Nice try, but no cigar.

Mollygo

Trisher, you posted these words @ 12:31, *
So carry on trying to justify the unjustifiable.
Sadly, I’m sure you will.

I'm sure if you think having women's events cancelled is OK you will think so. I'm not sure how that equates with feminism though, so perhaps you can explain.