Deliberate and orchestrated silencing of trans rights supporters on GN

Thanks trisher

Whitewavemark2

Can anyone tell me exactly what is meant by trans please as some of your posts don’t make sense by using my idea of the term.

Well realistically it originates in Latin like a lot of words...

Simplistically

Trans means "that side"

Which is why some use the word cis

Cis means "this side"

So someone who transitioned from male to female is trans

Then we have transition which now encompasses living as a different gender to the one you were assigned at birth to full surgery and everything in between

VioletSky

Doodledog

WWM2, I know a few 'gender-neutral/non-binary' people. They are all young, and (in my entirely inexpert opinion) mostly Autistic. They (boys and girls) wear jeans, t shirts and waistcoats and have Eton crops or undercuts with slightly spiky tops. Mostly they are very introverted - to the point of social anxiety - and more often than not have same-sex partners.

Time will tell whether they will come out as gay down the line.

I disagree with this, autistic people can be socially anxious but they aren't the same thing and it is only one of many many signs.

My daughter is autistic, I work in SEND and I myself am very likely autistic as is one of my sons and my father.

Autism is an umbrella and autistic people can differ greatly and its not as easy to spot as you might think.

My friend's daughter is on the spectrum VioletSky. She's nothing like this. Her best friend (also on the spectrum) is totally different to her in every aspect of her behaviour. There must a word for loading all people with a cerain disability into the same category.

Can anyone tell me exactly what is meant by trans please as some of your posts don’t make sense by using my idea of the term.

I think you would have to be present in forums where trans people are to know what they are and are not actively condemning in places they feel safe to speak.

There is a danger to trans people taking to public platforms and outing themselves as trans when recent discussions has already caused crimes against trans people to quadruple in 5 years.

Perhaps though you are seeing men and women condemning violence and just haven't known their trans status.

From my earlier post Mollygo
The fact that there are now some individuals who choose to use this idea for nefarious purposes shouldn't stop us accepting and accommodating transpeople any more than a male paedophile stops us accepting men or an abusive mother stops us accepting women.
Implying that abusive men are anything to do with transpeople is a bit like saying someone is assumed guilty unless they can prove their innocence.
Women should be safe everywhere. They should not need the provision of safe spaces because the step which comes after that is restricting them to those spaces to keep them safe.

Doodledog

*WWM2*, I know a few 'gender-neutral/non-binary' people. They are all young, and (in my entirely inexpert opinion) mostly Autistic. They (boys and girls) wear jeans, t shirts and waistcoats and have Eton crops or undercuts with slightly spiky tops. Mostly they are very introverted - to the point of social anxiety - and more often than not have same-sex partners.

Time will tell whether they will come out as gay down the line.

I disagree with this, autistic people can be socially anxious but they aren't the same thing and it is only one of many many signs.

My daughter is autistic, I work in SEND and I myself am very likely autistic as is one of my sons and my father.

Autism is an umbrella and autistic people can differ greatly and its not as easy to spot as you might think.

How many posters on here have acknowledged that not all TW mean harm?
Lots of them.
Perhaps if those supporting ALL tw made it clear they did NOT support those ill-intentioned TW *(easy) *and instead supported arrangements to protect females from the ill-intentioned tw, there would be some progress.
But some people just can’t bring themselves to do that. To prove they’re intersectional, (seems to be a word for those who don’t quite make it as feminists?), they can’t do anything that might rebut the behaviour of some tw because that would mean they aren’t caring for everyone.
By refusing to admit that because of even a small percentage of ill-intentioned tw, natal women need safe spaces, they are not caring for all groups.
By refusing to support the provision of safe spaces or the retention of existing safe spaces, they are facilitating the actions of those ill-intentioned tw and so failing in the intersectional caring for all aim.
Oh dear. Trans Women Are Transwomen.

Galaxy

But surely you understand that a woman who had been raped might feel differently.

Of course but then what accommodation should I make for people who have suffered in other ways? Should I for example refuse to allow candles or open fires in a place because they might frighten someone who had been badly burned? If someone has been assaulted by a women partner what accommodation do I make for her?

Rape is a terrible and awful crime but it is not the only terrible thing that happens to women or indeed to people

Galaxy refuges are protected by risk assessment there is an excellent post earlier in this thread which explains how it works. One of the horrors of this gender critical movement is that it has led women to think they are not safe in refuges when there is little evidence to support this. How many women have remained in violent relationships because of this we may never know
A transgender prison wing has been opened.

I mentioned things from another thread in response to your doing the same?. You mentioned having been called mysogynist (ages ago) as though you are the victim here, and I reminded you of some of the things you have called me recently. I'm not attempting to be acrimonious - I just object to being cast as someone who deliberately orchestrates ways of silencing those who support trans rights.

To restrict access to women's spaces is not the same as having restrictive views. It is, in fact, safeguarding when those spaces are prison cells and the people wanting access are male sex-offenders. IMO, discrimination is absolutely necessary in those circumstances - acting with discrimination is not the same as having discriminatory views.

It does work exactly like that in most hospitals trisher, having worked in NHS hospitals for over 40 years I think I do know the system. Most have a fixed number of toilet facilities, marked by sex spread through the ward. When bays change sex patients go to the nearest available toilet for their sex. The designation of the toilets isn’t ever changed, because it causes more confusion to already confused patients to have to change which facility they use.

Doodledog if you stop some people accessing something what else is that but "restrictive"?
If you examine people and only allow people with certain characteristics to do something what else is it but "discriminatory"?
I think you have already brought in allegations from another thread which I chose to ignore (strictly against the rules) so perhaps I'm not the one bringing acrimony into this discussion

But surely you understand that a woman who had been raped might feel differently.

Casdon

Using a mixed hospital ward is a good example of how mixed sex environments don’t work well trisher. Patients dislike the environment, it makes them feel vulnerable. Changing a male bay to a female bay or vice versa to accommodate patient mix causes issues with toilets in particular, and patients constantly wander into the wrong areas. Assaults by patients with confusion is quite common. That is why hospitals are now built with single en-suite rooms.

Doesn't exactly work like this. The bays have their own washing and toilet facilities which are what used to be known as unisex now I think gender neutral. There were single en-suite rooms, used when patients had infections and needed barrier nursing or extra care. My mother spent a couple of weeks in one. She detereorated considerably because of the isolation. We spent much longer than most families there but she still suffered and became delusional. When she went back into her bay she was fine.

Its the consent to being in a space with men say in a refuge or prison. If you want to be in a mans space no one is stopping your consent to that as long as the men are ok with it.

So those of us who don't mind if a transwoman is using a facility don't count. Only people with restrictive and discriminatory views count?
Nobody said that - there is no need to take everything so personally. And the 'restrictive and discriminatory views' dig is unnecessary, too. If you think that is what Molly and I were being, why not explain why, as I did when I stood by my misogyny opinion? That way, we could respond if we felt that it was unjust, or at least explain our point of view.

Thinly-veiled digs like that are what give these threads the reputation for getting nasty, and as I say, I really don't think that most of them come from the GC 'side'. People can only take so much, and it's understandable if they fight back when on the receiving end of such unpleasant comments.

Galaxy

The thing is trisher its about consent so I might not mind all sorts of things but I cant give consent for other women.

But I'm not giving consent Galaxy don't I count?

Using a mixed hospital ward is a good example of how mixed sex environments don’t work well trisher. Patients dislike the environment, it makes them feel vulnerable. Changing a male bay to a female bay or vice versa to accommodate patient mix causes issues with toilets in particular, and patients constantly wander into the wrong areas. Assaults by patients with confusion is quite common. That is why hospitals are now built with single en-suite rooms.

The thing is trisher its about consent so I might not mind all sorts of things but I cant give consent for other women.

Doodledog

*If women would not use the service if a male was present, make it so that women don’t have to discover a man is present in the toilet, the hospital ward, the changing room etc making the service unusable. The fact that that rule needs to be made because of a small % of tw is not women’s fault. Perhaps if those supporting ALL tw made it clear they did NOT support those ill-intentioned TW (easy) and instead supported arrangements to protect females from the ill-intentioned tw, there would be some progress.*

Well said, Molly. If this came to pass, so much of the disagreement would dissipate. As usual, however, it is women who are expected to do the legwork when it comes to accommodating male interests, and many of us have just had enough. I think that a lot of women might possibly let things pass for themselves, but when they think about the impact on their daughters and granddaughters they come out fighting. Maternal instinct is a female trait that should never be underestimated ?

^They can be excluded if women wouldn’t use the service if they (transwomen) we’re present.
Wrong way round. If women would not use the service if a male was present, make it so that women don’t have to discover a man is present in the toilet, the hospital ward, the changing room etc making the service unusable.
The fact that that rule needs to be made because of a small % of tw is not women’s fault.^
So those of us who don't mind if a transwoman is using a facility don't count. Only people with restrictive and discriminatory views count? I don't mind if a transwomen is in the next cubicle when I'm trying on clothes. My mum spent 3 months in a huge hospital ward which seperated the sexes into bays but which was mixed. There were no problems (unless you regard a woman with dementia wandering into all the bays as a problem) /. There were many more women patients than men. It was easy to accommodate more women. They just changed the bays. How long would women have to wait if the beds were assigned by sex and not changeable? I don't want restrictions which may seem to protect me but actually do no such thing and just encourage the belief that women are nothing but victims who need protection. It leads to dangerous philosophies and the possibility of real restrictions.

I'm not convinced that maternal instinct is a gender construct. It's hard to be sure, but I'm willing to believe that it is at least partly biological. It's not guaranteed to be there in all women, and many men are also nurturing types, but on the whole I think it's more about sex than gender.

Galaxy

Women have been rejecting gender roles for decades.

Yes that is true, but I’m not aware that they have ever identified as anything other than women, certainly not as gender neutral.

But as I said it will be interesting to see how this new gender develops and how it impinges on societal rules on sexual behaviour. Although, given that some of that behaviour I have argued is innate it is a bit if a difficult one.

I think really that just as we can remember outlandish and pointless behaviour and constructs when our generation introduced the concept of feminism, (I am aware of people like - bugger senior moment - Mary someone in the nineteenth century) this may well go the same way, as the idea of Trans develops.

I may add that I am fully supportive of the feminist idea - well at least what I understand as such, as undoubtedly the concept has moved on.

I actually meant to say feminists rather than women, I know they can be one and the same

WWM2, I know a few 'gender-neutral/non-binary' people. They are all young, and (in my entirely inexpert opinion) mostly Autistic. They (boys and girls) wear jeans, t shirts and waistcoats and have Eton crops or undercuts with slightly spiky tops. Mostly they are very introverted - to the point of social anxiety - and more often than not have same-sex partners.

Time will tell whether they will come out as gay down the line.

I think having children is decreasing quite significantly in the young, one way of rejecting that particular dilemma.