Deliberate and orchestrated silencing of trans rights supporters on GN

Mollygo

Thanks MerylStreep.

Anticipated Tory, Labour, LibDem response?

Request duly noted
I will
Till you’ve voted!
???

Thanks MerylStreep.

Me Too...MerylStreep

Is a bus a taxi?

I shall certainly be quoting this to every prospective mp or councillor who wants my vote.

Respect my sex if you want my X

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10674135/Three-women-launch-significant-female-movement-Suffragettes.html

I said that there is no reason why she needed to concentrate on transmen, as they were not her main concern in the piece. The alternative would have been to cover so much that she would have been accused of writing too long an article and blamed for the fact that (some of) her readers had lost concentration.

oh.

If something is your main concern shouldn't you actually express and develop those concerns? Or is it OK just to forget them and write about yourself. I don't think that shows real concern.
You could have a full time job on GN making that criticism. Enjoy!

Doodledog

trisher

Galaxy

What do you mean trisher, jkr talks about transmen quite a lot, particularly about detransition and what that means for the women that go through it.

Maybe she does I don't follow her. But she certainly didn't in the piece the link was given for.

So, why not link us up to something that JKR has actually said, and say what you find offensive, rather than complaining about something (as the basis of your complaint) that she didn't say in the one I linked to?

You may as well point out that she didn't talk about tangerines, or giraffes. The piece was about how she came to be vilified as a 'transphobe' (for liking a Tweet) and why she posted that intact men should not be in female safe spaces (because she has been attacked by a man and is still traumatised by that). There is no reason why that piece should have concentrated on transmen just because you find that topic 'an interesting one for debate'.

She mentioned transmen as her main concern in the piece you linked to Doodledog (have you read it???) then immediately forgot about them and posted her personal experience and criticised transwomen. If something is your main concern shouldn't you actually express and develop those concerns? Or is it OK just to forget them and write about yourself. I don't think that shows real concern.

trisher

Galaxy

What do you mean trisher, jkr talks about transmen quite a lot, particularly about detransition and what that means for the women that go through it.

Maybe she does I don't follow her. But she certainly didn't in the piece the link was given for.

So, why not link us up to something that JKR has actually said, and say what you find offensive, rather than complaining about something (as the basis of your complaint) that she didn't say in the one I linked to?

You may as well point out that she didn't talk about tangerines, or giraffes. The piece was about how she came to be vilified as a 'transphobe' (for liking a Tweet) and why she posted that intact men should not be in female safe spaces (because she has been attacked by a man and is still traumatised by that). There is no reason why that piece should have concentrated on transmen just because you find that topic 'an interesting one for debate'.

If I am not mistaken Animosity & Personal insults are posted from time to time on just about every topic.

Galaxy

What do you mean trisher, jkr talks about transmen quite a lot, particularly about detransition and what that means for the women that go through it.

Maybe she does I don't follow her. But she certainly didn't in the piece the link was given for.

What do you mean trisher, jkr talks about transmen quite a lot, particularly about detransition and what that means for the women that go through it.

all I was doing was drawing attention to JKR
Who would undoubtedly feel she doesn’t need it.

Iam64

*girls transitioning unnecessarily and there is perhaps an interesting debate to be entered into there*

Intellectualising the desperate situation where growing numbers of girls are transitioning unnecessarily is IMO offensive. I entirely understand the need for calm, well informed debate about this. The reality is the increase in the number of girls who feel unhappy/body dismorphic, is worrying.
Especially given the conclusions of the Cass report.
I haven’t seen any comments criticising the Cass report. In fact other than the gender critical group, I haven’t seen any reference to it

Iam64 I'm not sure what you mean by intellectualising all I was doing was drawing attention to the fact that JKR chose to raise the subject as a concern and dismiss it in a couple of sentences, then forget about it entirely and focus on transwomen. It seems to me if you are really concerned you would want to discuss more. Apparently though women only spaces is more important, of course where transmen go in the spaces is a bit complicated.

girls transitioning unnecessarily and there is perhaps an interesting debate to be entered into there

Intellectualising the desperate situation where growing numbers of girls are transitioning unnecessarily is IMO offensive. I entirely understand the need for calm, well informed debate about this. The reality is the increase in the number of girls who feel unhappy/body dismorphic, is worrying.
Especially given the conclusions of the Cass report.
I haven’t seen any comments criticising the Cass report. In fact other than the gender critical group, I haven’t seen any reference to it

Nothing justifies death threats against JKR. Please stop acting like there is anyone here with that belief.

Nothing justifies death threats against JKR or trans people.

I've denounced both.

I've however noticed not only a lack of denouncenent of violence against trans women but also a lack of denouncenent of violence towards women people simply believed were trans when they weren't.

I've been asked to prove that happens and I have.

This really bothers me

Doodledog

This sums up the process really well.

????? no actually
????? that that’s what’s going on.

The only people than can commit rape (in legal terms) are those with a penis.

They can rape/assault anyone - biological men, biological women and anyone from either biological group. identifying as a different gender.

Most "penis people" are perfectly ok - some aren't.

Surely, that is what JKR was saying?

Just leave biological women some spaces where they know they are highly unlikely to be pestered or abused by someone with a penis...?

Bloody Groundhog Day…

This sums up the process really well.

She wasn't writing to your agenda, though. She was explaining why she wrote what she wrote.

Of course there are always going to be those who are determined to tell her what she thinks, and why she thinks it. If the 'TERF' accusations are 'explained' by the fact that someone who was assaulted by a man wants to know for sure when she is in the company of a male-bodied person, then it says a lot about those making them. For one thing they are not allowing JKR to own her fears, and for another the threats are hugely disproportionate to the 'offence', however misguided their reading of it may be (JKR has repeatedly explained that her comments were not in any way transphobic, and she should know).

And reading something a different way isn't "twisting " anything it simply explains a different conclusion that could be drawn from the piece and explains the TERF accusations.

Rosie51

Doodledog

trisher

Doodledog

And the reasons she was called TERF in the first place, trisher? Any comment on those?

Well if you bring into a discussion about trans matters your personal experience of assault you could be seen as using an emotional matter completely unconnected, to elicit support for your point of view. And it is undoubtedly phobic to say because you were assaulted by a man you fear transwomen. A phobia is after all an unjustifiable fear. So if JKR is saying she fears transwomen because a man assaulted her, how is that a justifiable fear? If her assault left her afraid of all men then that fear might be justified but she doesn't say that.

No, she says that because of her fear of assault by men she wants to be sure that they have not got access to places where she assumes she is safe because they are supposedly single-sex.

Now you may not agree with that, but you are really twisting what she says - at no point does she say that she fears transwomen because a man assaulted her. In fact, she is at pains to say that she wants transwomen to be safe too.

Now you may not agree with that, but you are really twisting what she says - at no point does she say that she fears transwomen because a man assaulted her. In fact, she is at pains to say that she wants transwomen to be safe too.

This illustrates how the rumours grow and become 'fact', get repeated and amplified, and suddenly she's the devil incarnate.

No what it shows is that she chose to speak out about an assault she suffered when discussing transmatters. The reasons for her doing that are debatable. I would argue that as an experienced writer she was fully aware that bringng such a thing into the discussion was purely emotive.
And as I said her first alleged problem was girls transitioning unnecessarily and there is perhaps an interesting debate to be entered into there.
Instead she chose to use an assault and introduce transwomen. She wasn't attacked by a transwoman
And if she had stuck to transmen the subject of safe spaces becomes much more complicated

This illustrates how the rumours grow and become 'fact', get repeated and amplified, and suddenly she's the devil incarnate.

Yes - this is why JKR has been threatened with death, why the young actors whose fortune she made by writing their parts in the HP films have vilified her, and why countless 'trans allies' claim she is a transphobe, whether or not they have actually read what she said. Does anyone really think that what she said was so terrible?

It perfectly illustrates how things on here get twisted, too.

Doodledog

trisher

Doodledog

And the reasons she was called TERF in the first place, trisher? Any comment on those?

Well if you bring into a discussion about trans matters your personal experience of assault you could be seen as using an emotional matter completely unconnected, to elicit support for your point of view. And it is undoubtedly phobic to say because you were assaulted by a man you fear transwomen. A phobia is after all an unjustifiable fear. So if JKR is saying she fears transwomen because a man assaulted her, how is that a justifiable fear? If her assault left her afraid of all men then that fear might be justified but she doesn't say that.

No, she says that because of her fear of assault by men she wants to be sure that they have not got access to places where she assumes she is safe because they are supposedly single-sex.

Now you may not agree with that, but you are really twisting what she says - at no point does she say that she fears transwomen because a man assaulted her. In fact, she is at pains to say that she wants transwomen to be safe too.

Now you may not agree with that, but you are really twisting what she says - at no point does she say that she fears transwomen because a man assaulted her. In fact, she is at pains to say that she wants transwomen to be safe too.

This illustrates how the rumours grow and become 'fact', get repeated and amplified, and suddenly she's the devil incarnate.