It's now or never for the planet

Well Volver, I still never said you were a bad guy. You did give the impression that you think China is doing it's best for the planet. I disagree. You have obviously taken my comments to heart. I stand by what I say about China. We just have to agree to disagree. Take care.

GrannyGravy13

Sorry volver but plundering the earth for its resources to maintain a technology lifestyle is detrimental to the planet and the lives of those forced into doing so.

No excuses or cop out it’s a fact.

No argument GG13.

That's why we have to do something about it.

But doing something about it should mean finding ways of maintaining our lifestyle without plundering the planet or exploiting others.

What is your solution to this situation around this?

Pepper59

Volver, I have never said you were a "bad guy"???? Where has that come from? I was referring to China and what I have posted was in no way referring to you. I'm trying to contribute to the debate. No, I don't agree with you, but that's all.

I’m more shocked anyone on here can admire China for anything! Especially after the last two years......

Volver, you rely on China if you like.

Mm hmm…

Volver, I have never said you were a "bad guy"???? Where has that come from? I was referring to China and what I have posted was in no way referring to you. I'm trying to contribute to the debate. No, I don't agree with you, but that's all.

Sorry volver but plundering the earth for its resources to maintain a technology lifestyle is detrimental to the planet and the lives of those forced into doing so.

No excuses or cop out it’s a fact.

Pepper59

Volver, you rely on China if you like. Where possible, I have no intention on relying on China for anything. The Chinese government have much to answer for and I don't trust them. Look at Hong Kong. I am saying no more.

Aye, good luck with that when there's no more oil.

Stop trying to paint me as the bad guy. Its not working.

The OP asked about what governments could do. It doesn't mean dropping everything we know and suddenly becoming hunter gatherers again.

I'm sure that most people are doing what they can (with a few notable exceptions in Manchester, maybe) but that is not enough. It is the governments of the world that need to make significant changes in how energy is sourced, what projects are funded, etc etc, so that we can actually do something about the problem before its too late.

So all the comments about China and mining metals and child labour and all the rest of it sound like excuses for everyone to just keep on as they are because there is no alternative. It sounds like a cop out, sorry.

Volver, you rely on China if you like. Where possible, I have no intention on relying on China for anything. The Chinese government have much to answer for and I don't trust them. Look at Hong Kong. I am saying no more.

volver sorry I am not trying to be simplistic, I know things need to be changed and soon.

The point I am trying to get across, and obviously failing is that in my experience (friends, family & acquaintances) we are all doing what we can regarding recycling, thinking before purchasing etc.

We are now waiting for R & D to come up with the answers/goods, and in the Industry I know we have been promised these innovations for well over 15 years, still no sign on the horizon.

The man in the street can only do what it can.

Youngsters at school all need a device for schoolwork (even our GC in reception and yr 2) have to have access for homework and projects. The elder ones in senior school have just had to update ie buy new devices as theirs were not able to support the new software required. (I have no idea how those parents on a low income manage this, I do know that our primary schools lend devices, must ask regarding the senior school)

So it’s not as easy as not buying phones, laptops etc as they are an intrinsic part of every day life.

volver

Pepper59

Im more shocked anyone on here can admire China for anything! Especially after the last two years......

Who is admiring China, please?

Deafening silence so I'll say something.

China is spending huge amounts on its renewables programs. I believe that they are the world's biggest producer of wind turbines.

So while the west are all sitting around saying that there's no point in us doing anything as long as China keep opening coal fired power stations, they are quietly becoming the main suppliers of renewables, which means that when we can no longer rely on oil and gas, we have to rely on Chinese technology.

So no "admiration" there, just a bit of common sense.

GrannyGravy13

I will give a personal instance, we changed energy supplier a few years ago, part of the deal was that they came round and replaced all our light bulbs with led’s, which are more energy efficient.

When we asked what to do with the multitude of discarded bulbs we were told to put them in the general waste, so our light bulbs are in landfill somewhere for the next 100+ years.

We try to only purchase eco friendly when our appliances are unable to be repaired, but I dread to think how much we have sent to landfill sites over our lifetimes.

When we asked what to do with the multitude of discarded bulbs we were told to put them in the general waste, so our light bulbs are in landfill somewhere for the next 100+ years.

Too simplistic. You had to throw away the bulbs, they already existed, so you would have had to throw them away anyway. Now that you have the LED bulbs you have to replace them far less often and so in the future there will be much less landfill caused by your lighting

I hear you Granny Gravy and I feel the same regarding electric cars.

Coastpath, I haven't flown since the mid 1990s. It is admirable that you practice what you preach.

Sorry volver is there an alternative to the metals used in microchips which is currently mined by children in Africa and used in everything from eco household white goods to cars ?

Yes.

Do we know what it is yet? No

So just sitting around and saying that we can't be expected to give up our mobile phones is not the answer. We've got to invest in the things that will really help, not pour more money into the coffers of the fossil fuel industry.

In the nineteenth century Whale Oil was a major source of lighting and heat. If you'd told the whalers that the future depended on the oil we had to find under the North Sea, they would have laughed in your face. The world changes.

I will give a personal instance, we changed energy supplier a few years ago, part of the deal was that they came round and replaced all our light bulbs with led’s, which are more energy efficient.

When we asked what to do with the multitude of discarded bulbs we were told to put them in the general waste, so our light bulbs are in landfill somewhere for the next 100+ years.

We try to only purchase eco friendly when our appliances are unable to be repaired, but I dread to think how much we have sent to landfill sites over our lifetimes.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Who is going to give up fancy gadgets? Who is going to give up driving a car or flying abroad for holidays?

Me and many people.

Vegansrock, do you have evidence for this? That we are polluting more than countries like China, India and Russia. Have you ever seen pictures of say, Chelyabinsk? (Apologies if spelling is wrong). I'm not sure what you say is correct. Of course we here, should continue to do our best, but it is hopeless trying to save the planet unless every country is on board. Also as I think Granny Gravy stated, who is going to give up fancy gadgets? Who is going to give up driving a car or flying abroad for holidays?

volver

Its quite interesting that people think saving the planet means being frugal and giving things up. The business opportunities for moving to renewables, finding new ways of doing things and so on are immense. But there are too many vested interests stopping things from moving on.

Interesting too to compare this with the thread about how politics affects scientific belief...

Sorry volver is there an alternative to the metals used in microchips which is currently mined by children in Africa and used in everything from eco household white goods to cars ?

I do know that there is R & D going on constantly regarding renewables etc. how long before these become economically viable and their production and resources used are less destructive than current alternatives?

Pepper59 I think some people will be equally shocked that you think the UK is doing its best, especially in light of the failings listed in Vegansrock's excellent post.

Agree we all must Reduce, Remove, Recyle, Repair much more and just not bothering till others bother is a ridiculous argument. The average US and U.K. citizen creates many more carbon emissions that the average Chinese or Indian individual. That’s a useful starting point. Let’s clean up our own waterways, seas and land - yes it will cost us but just sitting around waiting for heatwaves and floods to drive half of humanity to seek refuge somewhere else is not the answer.

Pepper59

Im more shocked anyone on here can admire China for anything! Especially after the last two years......

Who is admiring China, please?

Its quite interesting that people think saving the planet means being frugal and giving things up. The business opportunities for moving to renewables, finding new ways of doing things and so on are immense. But there are too many vested interests stopping things from moving on.

Interesting too to compare this with the thread about how politics affects scientific belief...

Im more shocked anyone on here can admire China for anything! Especially after the last two years......

The U.K. has seen a catastrophic drop in wildlife with over 70% fewer insect species in the last 50 years for one. Sewage in the sea, coal mines, agriculture and fishing industries allowed to poison the land and oceans - let’s clean up our own act and not just point the finger at others.