Gradual privatisation of the NHS

Zoejory

Wasn't it Tony Blair that started the whole privatisation of NHS? Partial?

My neighbour had her cataracts done in a private hospital. For the NHS. She was over the moon.

It has been going on for a long time now.

www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.politics

It was the 2011 Act which parcelled the NHS up and accelerated the process of selling it to the lowest bidders.

DiamondLily

I don't know. NHS patients have been referred to private hospitals for years, around here, for various treatments. The treatment is still free.

If it becomes chargeable, then that's another issue.

You really don't seem to understand the main issues. If a service is privatised, somebody is making a profit - and that means less is going into frontline care, unless the service magically becomes more efficient. It also means that the "expensive" cases ie. the elderly and those with long-term conditions (including mental health) will get even worse. We are already moving towards a system where people pay to queue jump and receive services beyond basic care. It's sad that some people don't even seem to care.

Wasn't it Tony Blair that started the whole privatisation of NHS? Partial?

My neighbour had her cataracts done in a private hospital. For the NHS. She was over the moon.

It has been going on for a long time now.

www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.politics

Some hospitals need to change:

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10695101/Mother-battling-cancer-scolded-NHS-bosses-complained-treatment.html

I know this hospital from when my parents were in there, so I'll say no more.?

(Sorry, but the DM is the only one without a paywall.)

Governments of all colours have been wanting to dismantle the NHS for years, the internal market was a big step forward. I get annoyed when people say that speccysaves are NHS - no they’re not, it’s a private company - does it pay tax in this country? American companies have been circling overhead for many a year like financial vultures and they’re getting closer.

Dentistry will be the next service to go - Covid lockdowns and over-zealous restrictions have done serious damage. The payment of NHS dentists under the Dental Unit Scheme was deemed unfit for purpose over 15 years ago. For a root canal and crown under this scheme, and which could take 3 or 4 appointments, the dentist gets paid the same amount if she/he removes the tooth with no other treatment.

By underpaying and demoralising staff they government is creating dissatisfaction with the NHS in the population. Look what Jeremy Hunt did to junior doctors when he was Health Secretary. How many hospital beds were closed even though the population numbers were rising quickly - all part of George Osborne’s totally unnecessary experiment - Austerity. They would like us to be the same as the USA - excessive insurance premiums, over testing over treating, we are then the victims of being financially bled. And no doubt, like Matt Hancock, make sure the business goes to their pals, and they themselves go through the revolving door into lucrative post politics “employment”.

It’s the lies that spew out of all governments that sickens me.

growstuff

Casdon

I misunderstood what you meant growstuff, hence the confusion. GPs who operate privately are everywhere, the difference in Wales is that no contracts are let to private companies for the running of NHS services as they are in England,

Not yet, but who knows what will happen in the future.

It won’t happen in Wales whilst we have a Labour Government, Health Boards have taken over the running of failing GP practices. The blood of Aneurin Bevan still runs hot here.

I don't know. NHS patients have been referred to private hospitals for years, around here, for various treatments. The treatment is still free.

If it becomes chargeable, then that's another issue.

Privatisation will cost NHS more as it has to be profitable for shareholders so it is bound to be worse.

DiamondLily

I don't care who owns our GP surgery. I just wish they'd open up properly for appointments. ?

You might have a serious think about 'not caring', DismondLily.

The government is depending on a critical mass of 'I don't carers' to get their privatisation plans for the NHS implemented without any real fuss from the public.

I don't care who owns our GP surgery. I just wish they'd open up properly for appointments. ?

Casdon

I misunderstood what you meant growstuff, hence the confusion. GPs who operate privately are everywhere, the difference in Wales is that no contracts are let to private companies for the running of NHS services as they are in England,

Not yet, but who knows what will happen in the future.

This is a list, compiled in 2021 and possibly increased since then, of GP practices in England owned by US health insurance giant, Centene, through its UK subsidiary, Operose Health.

weownit.org.uk/blog/here-are-gp-practices-taken-over-us-health-insurance-giant-centene

I misunderstood what you meant growstuff, hence the confusion. GPs who operate privately are everywhere, the difference in Wales is that no contracts are let to private companies for the running of NHS services as they are in England,

It is not only the NHS. For example, in Plymouth, Adult Social Services now come under the umbrella of a Community Interest Company called Livewell Southwest along with the Community Health Team, Plymouth Hospital and others. When a family member becomes VERY seriously ill we experienced appalling communications and lack of coordination between services. The sloppy use of acronyms caused near fatal decisions. So much so that we had to arrange for the person concerned to be move hundred miles to the North of Scotland for effective care

In France there is an excellent health service which is a combination of state and privately-owned provision. Treatment is prompt. Treatment is free except for a modest contribution which can be claimed back from cheap mutual insurance. But doctors are paid less than in the UK. Domiciliary services and rehabilitation are provided according to need. What can we learn from them without getting hung up on political ideology?

Wales does have private GPs.

www.theindependentgeneralpractice.co.uk/

I don't know what the rules are. I do know that there are at least two private GP surgeries within a few miles of where I live. They're staffed by people who used to work in existing NHS practices. They're contributing to staff recruitment difficulties.

They charge £120 for a standard 20 minute appointment, with medications, tests and follow ups as extras. They're used by people who can afford to queue jump.

Nuffield Health also offer private GP appointments.

They're different from GP surgeries owned by big companies contracted to the NHS.

Have GP private surgeries been set up in places where there were viable GP services already in place in England growstuff? We don’t have privately run practices in Wales, so I’m a bit in the dark, but I thought contracts had been let to private companies in England only where the NHS GP service had failed due to recruitment difficulties? Our model is increasingly different to the English one though so I’m not sure on that.

How much profit are the privately owned treatment centres making?

Visgir1

I have just check my area on the map
It shows Treatment Centres that are privately owned but all referrals are NHS.
They have been around this area well over 15 years.
If you need an routine type XRay you will be referred to one, so not clog up the local Hospital.
I'm a NHS professional, we have been doing satellite clinics in GP Surgeries for years. We can do a clinic outside of the Trust, so capacity can be maintained and help with waiting lists.
I know it's enhancing the services we give not take away from them.
I was told on a course once "The NHS is a victim of its own success"

How does the cost of a private X ray compare with the cost of a NHS one? If private companies can do them more cheaply - and pay to have their staff trained from scratch - great! I have been told by somebody who also works in the NHS (for the local commissioning group) that there is no cost benefit, which is leaching money from the NHS.

Yes it is definitely being privatised by the back door, it started with the change in contracts with dentist , look how difficult it is to get any treatment under the NHS it is now , most dentist won't do a scale and clean on the NHS now you have to see the hygienist. I just seen online that one of the vaccine manufacturing places based in Oxford has been sold to an American company after receiving £215 million in government funding. This is just the things we find out about what about the ones that to under the radar.

I have just check my area on the map
It shows Treatment Centres that are privately owned but all referrals are NHS.
They have been around this area well over 15 years.
If you need an routine type XRay you will be referred to one, so not clog up the local Hospital.
I'm a NHS professional, we have been doing satellite clinics in GP Surgeries for years. We can do a clinic outside of the Trust, so capacity can be maintained and help with waiting lists.
I know it's enhancing the services we give not take away from them.
I was told on a course once "The NHS is a victim of its own success"

Casdon I agree that it's not a popular specialty. However, the service is being affected by funding. GPs are being left with the expensive patients. The majority of adults, especially males, rarely see their GPs and they subsidise those who do - children, the elderly, those with chronic conditions and pregnant women. If the "cheaper" adults are being lured into using privatised services, there will be fewer resources for the remaining patients.

Even before Covid, it was almost impossible to get a GP appointment at my practice, people couldn't make follow-up appointments (especially with the same GP) and were often fobbed off with a practice nurse. I have nothing against practice nurses, but they don't have the same expertise as doctors and I was always referred to the GP anyway, which is an incredible waste of my and the surgery's time and money.

The funding model means there's tension between primary and secondary services and GPs sometimes have to work to a "tick box mentality" rather than dealing with their patients holistically.

It's not helped when funding is siphoned off to the cheaper and more straightforward services.

I don’t think it’s the funding that’s the major reason why GP practices are failing. They are paid on a fee per service provided primarily, based on their list size. The real problem is in a lack of doctors and other health professionals to maintain the service. Demand is increasing exponentially, but working in primary care is isolated and tough, so not many UK graduates choose it above their other options. This has been an issue since the start of the NHS, but now is much worse because less foreign doctors want to work in the UK.

Quite agree, Growstuff, esp re GPs and general hospitals treating mainly costly long-term conditions with no quick profits.

These are major issues about which local patient participation groups or health overview committees can do nothing.