Gradual privatisation of the NHS

My late OH used to be a private hire driver and he was often called upon to collect equipment from NHS hospitals that was rented out to private hospitals and clinics when the need arose. He also ferried surgeons to and fro in the same way. One told him that he made a good extra income sorting out the messes that occurred in the badly run, poorly equipped private sector.

The consultants aren’t paid twice cc, they wor part time for the NHS and part time privately.

My cataracts were done by a private company for the NHS on a weekday afternoon. All the consultants employed by this hospital were from the large local NHS hospital where I could equally well have had the procedures done.
I don't understand why NHS consultants can take time out of a working weekday to do this work, effectively being paid twice for the same time.

I'm in 2 minds about this. Years ago, my MIL was sent by the NHS to a private clinic in France to have a hip replacement. Great Service, rehab in another centre so no bed hogging and all a complete success. At the same time, my mother had hers on the NHS in an NHS hospital. Lots of problems, poor decisions, infections, etc. 3 years later she had to have another hip replacement. More recently, a friend had a knee replacement with great success at a private hospital under the NHS. My mother had one within the NHS. The surgeon cracked her femur but refused to admit it even though it was clear on the X-ray. The whole thing was a nightmare.
My son has been sent to private hospitals to have spinal injections and the service has been brilliant. The one he had in an NHS hospital was done eventually but there were minor problems on the way.
If the private services are procured by the NHS but they remain free, then I don't see a problem if it keeps waiting lists down and the services are good. What I object to is services just being withdrawn completely. My mother went to have her hearing tested and they couldn't do it because they said she had blocked ears. The NHS no longer does this so she had to pay £80 to have it done privately. No problem but I do wonder how many low income people can afford this and then they are subject to deafness, isolation, etc.

The measures of success of healthcare are very varied, and whilst some aspects of care are better here, waiting lists in Wales have undoubtedly been worse than in England, I don’t disagree with you about that.
The problem is that if you give two organisations anywhere exactly the same brief and goals, their response and outcomes will be different, and that is how healthcare works, everywhere. There seems to have been a perfect storm in Betsi Cadwaladr, with serious issues in very different parts of the system rather than one or two services failing, and I think that’s why it’s been so difficult to recover from the failures.

I agree that it probably will be broken up as it is the largest board, geographical and population but this has been going on for the last seven years!

If the Tories can be hauled over coals for 12 years of NHS mismanagement in England (and I don’t disagree with that) then Labour in Wales can be judged accordingly given that they’ve been in charge for even longer. We’ve paid a massive price for free prescriptions and hospital parking!

Drakeford is already rewriting the history books, blaming COVID for current horrendous waiting lists, when the truth is that people were waiting years for ops!

I suspect Betsi Cadwaladr Health Board will be broken up Pantglas2, having been in special measures which have not succeeded in resolving endemic problems. None of the other Health Boards in Wales are in the same position.
If you look at England, that’s what has happened on a number of occasions to failing Healthcare organisations, which happen under governments of all parties unfortunately.

“It won’t happen in Wales whilst we have a Labour Government, Health Boards have taken over the running of failing GP practices.”

So who takes over the failing Health Boards, Casdon, under this marvellous Labour Government?

DiamondLily

growstuff

DiamondLily

I don't know. NHS patients have been referred to private hospitals for years, around here, for various treatments. The treatment is still free.

If it becomes chargeable, then that's another issue.

You really don't seem to understand the main issues. If a service is privatised, somebody is making a profit - and that means less is going into frontline care, unless the service magically becomes more efficient. It also means that the "expensive" cases ie. the elderly and those with long-term conditions (including mental health) will get even worse. We are already moving towards a system where people pay to queue jump and receive services beyond basic care. It's sad that some people don't even seem to care.

DH and I are so called elderly with long term conditions. The NHS was bad before Covid, it's even worse now. If we have to pay, then that's what we will have to do.

Great for you, if you can afford to pay ... not so great for those who couldn't afford realistic insurance premiums.

Bye bye you elderly, not so wealthy people ... it's been nice knowing you!

Is it any wonder that we already have health and death rate inequality in the UK?

private medicine is fine if you are wealthy insured etc, look at the 'field type'hospitalsthat are set up in the usa, for those less fortunate,like a third world situation.I find the whole nhs thing very sad, the profiteers rushing in every time. What is to be done?
ive no idea, humans have got to go back to the drawing board.

growstuff

DiamondLily

I don't know. NHS patients have been referred to private hospitals for years, around here, for various treatments. The treatment is still free.

If it becomes chargeable, then that's another issue.

You really don't seem to understand the main issues. If a service is privatised, somebody is making a profit - and that means less is going into frontline care, unless the service magically becomes more efficient. It also means that the "expensive" cases ie. the elderly and those with long-term conditions (including mental health) will get even worse. We are already moving towards a system where people pay to queue jump and receive services beyond basic care. It's sad that some people don't even seem to care.

DH and I are so called elderly with long term conditions. The NHS was bad before Covid, it's even worse now. If we have to pay, then that's what we will have to do.

Billions haven't been 'thrown at' the NHS. Governments from 2010 onwards have actually kept it short of cash in real terms.

This should
Say private gp not go x

Yes, I have actually paid for a private go appointment and also have just joined a scheme with my husbands work, that has gp online, not that I think I should have to… it’s very worrying tbh tbat the future of nhs is not looking good at all. It’s going to be fine if you have money but if not it’s not great. Saying that, nhs has been amazing with treating my granddaughter that has leukaemia, so if it’s something very serious I am glad to say nhs is amazing. Routine stuff and go appointments are appalling though !

So what do you think should happen Zoejory? How about killing off some of the expensive patients? If you're a fit 20-60 year old you might stand some chance in this brave new world!

Zoejory

Under Labour our local hospital closed down the maternity and children's ward. Now if we have an emergency with children we have to embark on a half hour journey to a different county.

I also was admitted to A&E during the time Tony had told us how he'd cut the waiting lists. Down to 4 hours. Sure they had. They just moved people into another room to wait.

I can't see how. the NHS can continue as it is. No matter who is in power. Billions are thrown at it. Double that and I still reckon it will fail.

Times have changed since the 40s. Sophisticated machinery, expensive drugs etc etc.

But it's a sacred cow. Tricky.

Half an hour? Sorry, but that's no distance. Many people have been travelling further than that for years. My nearest hospital with an A&E is further than half an hour away and also in a different county ... and always has been. The "official" hospitals for the clinical commissioning groups are an hour and an hour and a half away.

4allweknow

Beenhoing on for years
Had a few tests over the past 5 years and each time the unit has been staffed, managed and procedures undertaken by a private company. One company has an office in a local hospital now.

And some people have been making a fuss about it for years! Just because it's been going on for years doesn't mean it shouldn't stop now!

What's happening now is more than outsourcing tests to private companies. It's already beginning to affect what all of us can expect from the NHS.

Beenhoing on for years
Had a few tests over the past 5 years and each time the unit has been staffed, managed and procedures undertaken by a private company. One company has an office in a local hospital now.

Under Labour our local hospital closed down the maternity and children's ward. Now if we have an emergency with children we have to embark on a half hour journey to a different county.

I also was admitted to A&E during the time Tony had told us how he'd cut the waiting lists. Down to 4 hours. Sure they had. They just moved people into another room to wait.

I can't see how. the NHS can continue as it is. No matter who is in power. Billions are thrown at it. Double that and I still reckon it will fail.

Times have changed since the 40s. Sophisticated machinery, expensive drugs etc etc.

But it's a sacred cow. Tricky.

No problem growstuff. I was living and breathing waiting list reduction initiatives at the time!

Cross post Casdon. Sorry!

The buying in of services to do cataract and (I believe) hip operations was nothing like what's happening these days. It was done to clear very long waiting lists and it made sense. There were thousands of patients waiting and private hospitals had spare capacity and expertise to do the ops. It would have taken years to train the doctors otherwise. Private hospitals are very good at doing one-off ops. Of course there's an argument that the NHS should already have been training more people, but this was a short-term solution, which was cheaper. There was never any intention to make the arrangement permanent.

Labour in the Blair government didn’t support privatisation of the NHS. What it did support was contracting out certain (primarily surgical) procedures which could be done at a reasonable rate in the private sector to reduce NHS waiting lists - which worked well in achieving that objective.

God! It was Thatcher who started privatisation with contracting out 'hotel services'.

DiamondLily

Some hospitals need to change:

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10695101/Mother-battling-cancer-scolded-NHS-bosses-complained-treatment.html

I know this hospital from when my parents were in there, so I'll say no more.?

(Sorry, but the DM is the only one without a paywall.)

So you think the situation would be different if this hospital were privatised?