"Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me."

their there

So agree with you Daisy.

nadateturbe

“While those who have the least are fighting among themselves, they’re leaving those who have the most alone.”

I've thought this for years.

It’s called divide and rule and the Tories have always been masterful at it. This thread is an absolutely perfect example of it. We start offwith a topic discussing the super rich and end up bitching about who has slightly more than someone else and advocate asset stripping as soon as you pop your clogs because somehow it’s wrong to pass on the things you’ve worked for throughout your life to your loved ones.

Dinahmo

Pammie1

Millbrook

Wow. Some keen Tories on this thread. Presumably all well/comfortably off and absolutely certain that it is all down to their ‘hard work and sacrifice’......

There are also some smug participants who seem to think that asset stripping the dead is the answer to giving us all the same start in life. It’s not levelling up, it’s levelling down. Why is it that ensuring equality never involves giving, it always takes away, in the name of creating opportunity and equality. That, right there, is your Tory thinking.

In some ways you are right but (and a big but) the Tories take away. You only have to look at the cuts in education and the NHS to see that.

There's nothing wrong with giving every child a good start in life and many of them are not getting that at the moment.

But you don’t have to take away the ability of hard working people with modest income and property to leave an inheritance, to do it.

weeducky

I keep asking myself " why would anyone choose to got into politics?" All they get is criticism, scorn, flak, verbal abuse, disapproval, fault finding, etc ad nauseam. None of them, by whatever colour they fly, do it for the money, which is so dismal, so why do it especially if you are so wealthy you REALLY do not need to work at anything. I personally think it is , with maybe the very odd exception, because they want to help the people of this country in whatever way they can . So I put a question to all 'Gransnetters' and hope you give it some deep thought, "Would you like to take over running the country?" I know I would definitely NOT

I'd hope that a 43 grand a year education would equip me to aspire to that kind of position in life, yes.
I do recognise that it may lead to some other rather obvious failings in other areas, though.

It's a shame there are things that can't be taught, however much you pay.

I'd hope that a 43 grand a year education would equip me to aspire to that kind of position in life, yes.

That £43k a year education absolutely teaches you that you are to rule, not aspiration, expectation.

Voters love being ruled by the elite. Look how they despise politicians with common accents and a tendency to use fruity language. Look how they're defending the wasting of money by the super rich because.. because.. well, I'm not altogether sure because of what.. But don't anyone dare try to take 76% of global wealth away from 10% of the global population... It's politics of envy and communism... The common people love their narratives of working all hours for peanuts and any crumbs that the super rich might like to throw them...

I find this all really depressing...

weeducky yes, some very well-heeled politicians who are so wealthy that they don't need to work, may very well go into politics to help the people of this country; however, I do think some are not so altruistic and want to be a politician solely for the kudos, fame and power.

I used to volunteer at a very high end art gallery, which was also a high end educational charity. It was not unusual to have the following conversation...
* Hi, Can you help, you've appeared on my credit card statement. Can you tell me what for?
* Of course, what date was it? Lovely, and the amount?
* Oh, not a lot last Saturday £4750...

Sorry but spending that amount and forgetting it, and calling it small?! Another customer called to buy a very expensive (to me) painting £8500. I pointed out she had bought and paid for it at the Open Night, the previous Friday...Oh, well, are any others available? I told her what was still listed and she chose the most expensive - as nothing under £5000 was worth buying. A totally different world.

GrannyGravy13

Mr. Sunak has not cut Universal Credit the £20 uplift was given over the various lockdowns of the last two years. It was said at the time that this was temporary.

I am sure that there is a scheme whereby a non-working wife/husband can transfer some of their tax allowance to the other.

It is not the super rich that are at fault it is the system, which successive Governments have not amended, that’s all Governments, Conservative, Conservative/Lib Dem coalition and Labour.

As long as the so called super rich are not doing anything illegal they remain untouchable…

Yes the £20 might have been a temporary uplift but there is loads of families some of whom are actually working who was struggling before the uplift.
Many charities, Trussell trust, c.a.b are two that come to mind, begged the government to not take the uplift away

My mother always used to say money goes to the rich.

We are no longer a democracy - bordering on a dictatorship.

Because of our FPTP voting system we are ruled by an elective dictatorship on the basis of a minority vote. This is the exact opposite of true democracy.

In theory Parliament is supreme, but in practice a party with a huge majority of MPs can do whatever it likes, no matter how much the voters or opposition MPs object.

In the present parliament it would take at least 40 Tory MP's to rebel against the government to stop even the most appalling legislation being passed. How likely is that?

Agree Varian There is a feeling of powerlessness.

MaizieD

^I'd hope that a 43 grand a year education would equip me to aspire to that kind of position in life, yes.^

That £43k a year education absolutely teaches you that you are to rule, not aspiration, expectation.

Voters love being ruled by the elite. Look how they despise politicians with common accents and a tendency to use fruity language. Look how they're defending the wasting of money by the super rich because.. because.. well, I'm not altogether sure because of what.. But don't anyone dare try to take 76% of global wealth away from 10% of the global population... It's politics of envy and communism... The common people love their narratives of working all hours for peanuts and any crumbs that the super rich might like to throw them...

I find this all really depressing...

I agree with a lot of this. Most of the global wealth is in the hands of the few and divide between the very richest and the very poorest widens every day. The solution is problematic for the ordinary people at the bottom of the pile because we’re largely the ones with a conscience, we see the inequity all around us and want to do something about it. But the perception is that to change the system and redistribute that wealth means that our own modest possessions will be treated in the same way. And that’s actually been suggested upthread. Once you start talking about taking away people’s hard earned property when they die and banning inheritance, the connection with communism is made, people take fright and the status quo is preserved. Win win for the rich. It’s called divide and rule and you only have to look back at this thread to realise how well it works.

We can’t legislate for luck and opportunity and instead of admitting that, we look to level the playing field by levelling down instead of up by taking away from those who have a little instead of giving to those who don’t. What we should be doing is finding a way to make it impossible for anyone to amass vast fortunes and stash them away where they’re of no use to anyone. For this to happen, the change has to come from the top down, not the bottom up.

I can’t see any party wanting to govern publishing a manifesto which included an intention to, if you like, ‘ban inheritance’. But I remember John McDonnell speaking in a very similar vein about inheritance and it was pretty obvious where we would ultimately be heading if he and Corbyn were in power. And I’m mindful that he hasn’t gone away. Talk of preventing people from amassing vast fortunes isn’t dissimilar. Do we really want to see people who pay a lot of tax here, and are responsible for the creation of a great many jobs, relocate to another country which doesn’t punish them for having money?

Stopping children from inheriting even £1m is not the same as preventing someone from accumulating millions/billions that will never ever be used. What is the point in hoarding it. If someone is amassing a fortune by employing people then the employees should be paid more.

Well said, Pammie1.

Yes, well said Pammie1.

Germanshepherdsmum

I can’t see any party wanting to govern publishing a manifesto which included an intention to, if you like, ‘ban inheritance’. But I remember John McDonnell speaking in a very similar vein about inheritance and it was pretty obvious where we would ultimately be heading if he and Corbyn were in power. And I’m mindful that he hasn’t gone away. Talk of preventing people from amassing vast fortunes isn’t dissimilar. Do we really want to see people who pay a lot of tax here, and are responsible for the creation of a great many jobs, relocate to another country which doesn’t punish them for having money?

One thing I remember very clearly from my politics lectures at uni. was the lecturer saying that parties can find it hard to implement the simplistic things they promote in their manifestos. There are often difficulties and barriers that they haven't thought about.

I wouldn't give too much credence to 'radical' proposals. Politics, is, after all, the art of the possible.

But demonising opposition proposals does go down well with tribal voters...

Germanshepherdsmum

I can’t see any party wanting to govern publishing a manifesto which included an intention to, if you like, ‘ban inheritance’. But I remember John McDonnell speaking in a very similar vein about inheritance and it was pretty obvious where we would ultimately be heading if he and Corbyn were in power. And I’m mindful that he hasn’t gone away. Talk of preventing people from amassing vast fortunes isn’t dissimilar. Do we really want to see people who pay a lot of tax here, and are responsible for the creation of a great many jobs, relocate to another country which doesn’t punish them for having money?

Yes, because they're not generating money for the UK economy. They're leeching wealth out of the economy.

As an example, are you seriously claiming that the UK will be worse off because Abramovich is now not welcome in the UK?

I think you'll find Chelsea football club is a lot worse off. I have no idea of Abramovich's tax status so can't comment on him, but there are many wealthy people who pay a great deal of tax in the UK and employ a lot of people. That generates money for the UK economy doesn't it? What if they all upped sticks and cleared off to Monaco tomorrow like Lewis Hamilton did, so as not to pay UK tax?

Germanshepherdsmum

I can’t see any party wanting to govern publishing a manifesto which included an intention to, if you like, ‘ban inheritance’. But I remember John McDonnell speaking in a very similar vein about inheritance and it was pretty obvious where we would ultimately be heading if he and Corbyn were in power. And I’m mindful that he hasn’t gone away. Talk of preventing people from amassing vast fortunes isn’t dissimilar. Do we really want to see people who pay a lot of tax here, and are responsible for the creation of a great many jobs, relocate to another country which doesn’t punish them for having money?

They may create jobs here but if they paid a proper living wage there would be no need for the income support element of Universal Credit. You only have to look at the CEO of P&O - paid half a million a year before bonuses. Rather than sacrifice anything himself to save the company he sacks a loyal workforce so he can flout UK law by paying new employees a pittance. He and many like him have absolutely no moral compass.

What I was saying upthread Pammiel.

Well there’s a sweeping generalisation if ever I saw one Pammiel.

Germanshepherdsmum

Well there’s a sweeping generalisation if ever I saw one Pammiel.

Like the one about all the rich people leaving if we increase their tax?