"Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me."

Who would vote for a government that didn’t believe in free enterprise, in the government imposing 100per cent inheritance tax. Would anyone set up a business, take risks and employ people with such restrictions in place. Look how much the Blair’s have, multi millionaires and their children, Keir Starmer is very wealthy with an estate, so many millionaires in the party. Would you advocate everyone having the same type of house, car, education? What a ridiculous suggestion that’s communism and everyone knows how that failed, with the top ones with their money sorted away abroad in second magnificent homes. If the rules are not fit for purpose, then change them, meanwhile what Rishi did was not against the law, as for his wife she’s not owned by him, women today make up their own minds and not at the mercy of their husbands, it seems as if some people don’t accept that, want to turn the clock back. Tell me one person who don’t want their own money spent as they think it should. Many save for the future don’t spend money they earn on holidays, cars etc. why should the government have it back. Spend money you earn, pay tax on as you wish.

Maybe I don't see life and wealth like other people. I see that we are born and die and we have some choice about what we do in the time in between. I don't see any wealth as belonging to individuals, but people have a right to use it during their lives for what they need/want, so I don't have a problem with returning it to the common "pot", so the next generation can earn it and choose what to do with it.

Pantglas2

I never earned as much as £24K pa and DH only ever earned below we’ll 40% tax rate but we still managed to buy our home. No bank of mum and dad or inheritances.

It doesn’t bother me that because of that eventually we’ll end up paying for later life care either when folks who earned more and don’t have anything to show for their efforts will get theirs for free/little.

However, what’s left after we’ve both paid our way goes to Our grandchildren, not other people’s.

Great! Do you think you could do that now, if you were starting out?

Nowhere near inheritance tax limits (alas) DaisyAnne but I’ve seen a few references on GN suggesting leaving anything to kith and kin shouldn’t be allowed due to some parents having nothing to leave!

As for tax avoidance/evasion, I admit to having savings that bring in under £1000 interest limit with ISAs being the next vehicle for avoiding tax. I drive an economical car which has very low tax for the purpose of saving on that and petrol and am always looking to save money (and tax obviously) on all purchases - arguably I’m depriving “society” of funds by doing all of this. Surely that’s ok because the government can just print more...

My thoughts are, we’re all at it, only to different degrees!

Pantglas2

I never earned as much as £24K pa and DH only ever earned below we’ll 40% tax rate but we still managed to buy our home. No bank of mum and dad or inheritances.

It doesn’t bother me that because of that eventually we’ll end up paying for later life care either when folks who earned more and don’t have anything to show for their efforts will get theirs for free/little.

However, what’s left after we’ve both paid our way goes to Our grandchildren, not other people’s.

Are you rich Pantglas? Do you have huge investments. Are you on a par with the Sunaks? Otherwise why do you think this will affect you so much?

One person suggested a change in inheritance tax but why do you think that will affect you?

I never earned as much as £24K pa and DH only ever earned below we’ll 40% tax rate but we still managed to buy our home. No bank of mum and dad or inheritances.

It doesn’t bother me that because of that eventually we’ll end up paying for later life care either when folks who earned more and don’t have anything to show for their efforts will get theirs for free/little.

However, what’s left after we’ve both paid our way goes to Our grandchildren, not other people’s.

MaizieD do you really think restrictions on what a person can earn or accumulate will benefit the poorer, least able in society?

Unfortunately I do not.

GrannyGravy13

I get your point MaizieD if all the appropriate taxes have been paid on these tools and the tools are not in anyway illegal I think it’s up to the tool owner to do whatever they see fit with their tools and nobody else’s business really.

No such thing as 'society', eh, GG13?

I'm not actually advocating taking people's existing wealth away from them. this isn't pre Revolutionary France or Russia.

I am saying that we should prevent them accumulating any more.

The money they have sucked out of various economies is money which governments have issued. I see no virtue in monopolising large amounts of public money when it could be put to myriad better uses for the wellbeing of all citizens of a country.

Adam Smith. 18th C empirical economist admired and grossly misinterpreted by Thatcher:

No society can surely be happy and flourishing of which the far greater part of its members are poor and miserable. It is but equity, besides, that they who feed, clothe and lodge the whole body of the people, should have such a share of the produce of their own labour as to be themselves tolerably well fed, clothed and lodged

Note that his most admired work is called 'The Wealth of Nations', not of 'Individuals'...

I get your point MaizieD if all the appropriate taxes have been paid on these tools and the tools are not in anyway illegal I think it’s up to the tool owner to do whatever they see fit with their tools and nobody else’s business really.

Antonia

*There should not be any super rich individuals, it isn’t good for them.*

In what way is it bad for people to be rich? The only thing I can see is that rich people often partake in dangerous pastimes such as skiing, racing, flying etc that sometimes lead to accidents.

Otherwise, being rich smooths your path in life. (I'm not speaking from experience, unfortunately).

It's not a question of 'super rich' not being good for them.

My objection is that they are wasting money by leaving it completely idle in tax havens and the like.

Money is a tool, it exists to facilitate transactions. As I said earlier, what use is a tool to you (or anyone else) if you lock it in the tool shed and don't use it, or even let anyone else use it? What's more, you've a massive collection of tools stashed away in that shed being of no use to anyone at all. It's a waste of a resource.

Of course, if you lived in a world where your wealth was measured by the amount of tools you owned, if it's anything like this world a great many of the toolless people, perhaps even the ones who made those tools, would be looking up to you and admiring you for wasting this resource... And thinking that you were the best sort of people to rule them because you must be superhuman to have acquired so many tools...

This is rather hypocritical

Whitewavemark2

growstuff

So where would the threshold be? There are very few people (a couple of percent max) who are very rich.

About 90% of the UK's wealth is owned by the top 50%, so anybody earning over the median income (£24,600 pa in January 2022) is rich to the other half of the population.

Only about 1% but they have enormous power, whilst ensuring that they pay much less tax as a % than the rest of us, that as far as I’m concerned is the issue

Thanks for the definition. Maybe the question should be asked how they got so rich. Some, of course, are genuinely self-made, but very few. Most have inherited wealth, which they have then grown.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff you think earning over £24,600 per annum makes you rich ?

Yes, I do, but it's all relative .

That's my point! 50% of people have an income lower than that.

Casdon

Median individual income is not the appropriate figure to use, median household income is more meaningful.
Median household disposable income in the UK was £31,400 in financial year ending (FYE) 2021, which covered the first year of the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic; this was an annual increase of 2%, based on estimates from the Office for National Statistics' (ONS) Household Finances Survey.

I agree that it's more complicated than individuals. Even £31,400 per household is not very high, so it's quite shocking there are 50% of households who have less than that. Housing costs are important too. For a household which has paid off a mortgage, the median isn't too bad, but it would be difficult for a household with rent or a mortgage and children. The point I was making really (or trying to make) is that in the UK there's a long tail of people who have very little, so a household with an income of, say, £70 - £80k would seem very rich.

There should not be any super rich individuals, it isn’t good for them.

In what way is it bad for people to be rich? The only thing I can see is that rich people often partake in dangerous pastimes such as skiing, racing, flying etc that sometimes lead to accidents.

Otherwise, being rich smooths your path in life. (I'm not speaking from experience, unfortunately).

Well I was about to acknowledge the apology but I don't think I'll bother now.

* We really are in the realms of making things up to suit our half-thought-through ideas now, aren't we?*

As you can see from my post above, it was a simple misunderstanding, not a case of making it up. And as someone who supports the idea of robbing after death, those who have a little, to give to those who have less, can I suggest that you are not best placed to judge what is and is not a half-thought-through idea. I’m out of this thread now. It’s descended into a race to the bottom.

Median individual income is not the appropriate figure to use, median household income is more meaningful.
Median household disposable income in the UK was £31,400 in financial year ending (FYE) 2021, which covered the first year of the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic; this was an annual increase of 2%, based on estimates from the Office for National Statistics' (ONS) Household Finances Survey.

volver

Oh, I just read that.

I have nothing to leave in terms of property ?

We really are in the realms of making things up to suit our half-thought-through ideas now, aren't we?

I worked hard and applied myself and paid off the mortgage on the 4-bedroom house 15 years ago. Where does that leave your politics of envy, please?

*volver has no children or close family and who was brought up in poverty but was a high achiever and is a very intelligent woman seems not to understand the desire to leave something to your family. Again, if her family circumstances were different I suspect she would not be happy for the State to confiscate everything she has when she dies.
Evidence perhaps that our personal circumstances colour our feelings about the ability to leave an inheritance?*

It was this, from another poster that gave me the impression you didn’t own property. My apologies if I was mistaken.

growstuff

So where would the threshold be? There are very few people (a couple of percent max) who are very rich.

About 90% of the UK's wealth is owned by the top 50%, so anybody earning over the median income (£24,600 pa in January 2022) is rich to the other half of the population.

Only about 1% but they have enormous power, whilst ensuring that they pay much less tax as a % than the rest of us, that as far as I’m concerned is the issue

growstuff you think earning over £24,600 per annum makes you rich ?

Pammie1

volver

Yes of course MaizieD. Perhaps you'd also like to remind posters that insinuating that other posters are jealous liars isn't very nice?

Cheers ??

Neither is insulting those people who have worked hard for the little they have, by suggesting that they should be responsible for those who have less, or that they are selfish and trying to avoid inconvenient ‘truths’. You’re trying to level the playing field - I don’t disagree with this at all, but for that, you need top down change, not tinkering around the edges.

Why is that insulting them?

So where would the threshold be? There are very few people (a couple of percent max) who are very rich.

About 90% of the UK's wealth is owned by the top 50%, so anybody earning over the median income (£24,600 pa in January 2022) is rich to the other half of the population.

Oh, I just read that.

I have nothing to leave in terms of property ?

We really are in the realms of making things up to suit our half-thought-through ideas now, aren't we?

I worked hard and applied myself and paid off the mortgage on the 4-bedroom house 15 years ago. Where does that leave your politics of envy, please?