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Archbishop of Canterbury Easter message “ Rwanda is an affront to God”

(150 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Sun 17-Apr-22 02:05:03

For those who want British and Christian values to be upheld in the face of an apparent onslaught from other faiths and values.

This is the head of the official church in the U.K. who speaks for British and Christian values

“This season is also "why there are such serious ethical questions about sending asylum seekers overseas", the archbishop will say.
His sermon continues: "The details are for politics. The principle must stand the judgment of God, and it cannot.
"It cannot carry the weight of resurrection justice, of life conquering death. It cannot carry the weight of the resurrection that was first to the least valued, for it privileges the rich and strong."
Mr Welby will say the plan "cannot carry the weight of our national responsibility as a country formed by Christian values".
"Subcontracting out our responsibilities, even to a country that seeks to do well like Rwanda, is the opposite of the nature of God who himself took responsibility for our failures," the sermon will say.

The archbishop's Easter sermon will also make reference to the "the greatest cost-of-living crisis we have known", saying that families across the country are "waking up to cold homes and empty stomachs".

He will say the struggle to pay for essentials is their first thought of the day and they feel "overwhelmed by the pressures".

"He hears the cry of the mothers in Ukraine, he sees the fear of boys too young to become soldiers, and he knows the vulnerability of the orphans and refugees.

Closer to home, he sees the humiliation of the grandparent visiting the food bank for the first time, the desperate choice of parents in poverty and the grief and weariness of the pandemic."

Sometimes I think I am going mad when I read some opinions on so many threads that seem to fly in the face that is decent and fair, but then I listen to people like Welby and my world becomes balanced again

volver Mon 18-Apr-22 10:51:52

I see this morning that Patel is saying about the Archbishop, that he doesn't have an alternative. Well he doesn't have to. If a government comes up with an illegal, immoral and unworkable idea, it's up to people to tell them so. Not to come up with an alternative confused

And Jaberwok, I'm an atheist, so I suspect you won't think much of my views. But I don't think its a very Christian position to accuse a good man of approving of people traffickers and call him a meddling hypocritical priest. Perhaps you'd like someone to rid us of this turbulent priest? That ended well.

Jaberwok Mon 18-Apr-22 10:23:40

Speaking as a Christian surely the afront to God are the wicked beyond belief people who put these unfortunate souls from babies to Grannies into rubber dinghys, charging them thousands of pounds, that are hardly fit for a paddling pool and sending them out into one of the most dangerous stretches of water on the planet? Why doesn't the Archbishop publicly condemn these traffickers? Perhaps he approves of them??!!! Also what would he do to stop this evil trade, and lastly and hopefully the Church of England has opened the doors of its many properties including Lambeth Palace to offer places of refuge for these displaced people. Faith can be sorely tried by these meddling hypocritical Priests.

Caleo Mon 18-Apr-22 10:06:29

Archbishop Welby is a proper priest and moral leader. The churches would be better if all priests were like him, translating the message of Jesus into practical politics.

volver Mon 18-Apr-22 09:07:42

The Archbishop of Canterbury is one of the Lords Spiritual, and sits in the House of Lords. While we have to put up with such an anachronistic set up for our parliament, complaining that the Archbishop "gets involved in politics" is hardly a valid complaint, is it? It's what he's supposed to do confused

Franbern Mon 18-Apr-22 08:23:17

As we have a 'state religion', then it seems obvious that the clergy are involved with politics. Can anyone really explain how anything is NOT political.

The food banks, the rise in energy bills, the queues at airports, ferries, pensions, PIP, etc. etc. All is political. For, an 'leader; in any community NOT to mention a political subject would mean they would have to remain totally silent.

Jennyeccles I do not want to derail this particular thread ...BUT please could you list one (JUST ONE) good thing that has come out of leaving the European Union. I know we can list many thing that have been bad about it - still waiting to hear of one good thing (please do not 'happy fish'!!!).

JenniferEccles Sun 17-Apr-22 23:39:41

In your opinion. Not mine.

Casdon Sun 17-Apr-22 22:43:41

JenniferEccles

The Archbishop has form for interfering in government policies.
I remember him blatantly trying to derail Brexit.

And how right he was then too.

JenniferEccles Sun 17-Apr-22 22:35:50

The Archbishop has form for interfering in government policies.
I remember him blatantly trying to derail Brexit.

Callistemon21 Sun 17-Apr-22 22:23:14

Ps I am agreeing with you, Chocolatelovinggran

Isn't Rees-Mogg supposed to be a staunch Catholic?

Callistemon21 Sun 17-Apr-22 22:21:23

Chocolatelovinggran

Christians are meant to ask "What would Jesus do?" I think that the Archbishop of Canterbury has answered that. Well done him.

If he and other clergy don't speak out on matters like this, giving a Christian perspective, then you might ask what are they for?

Rowan Williams and other faith leaders recently visited Ukraine to meet with refugees and hear their stories for themselves. Should they ignore this too?

Yes, they have every right to get involved.

Callistemon21 Sun 17-Apr-22 22:12:59

Galaxy

True but not mine, his views have as much impact on me as if Ant and Dec had made a statement on it. I also dont think its a good idea to be cheering on religion becoming involved in politics. It is or can be dangerous.

I also dont think its a good idea to be cheering on religion becoming involved in politics

He is a member of The House of Lords, our as are the other bishops.

You can't get much more involved than that.

OakDryad Sun 17-Apr-22 21:48:24

Sending asylum seekers to Rwanda is almost an Easter story of redemption according to Rees Mogg. Has this entitled man no shame in his sophistry? But then, I expect no better from the man who has repeatedly described the Prime Minister, with his proven track record of deceiving the elecorate, an unquestionably honest man.

I haven’t forgotten either that Rees Mogg was once guest speaker at the annual dinner held by the Traditional Britain Group, the far-right group which opposes non-white immigration and calls for non-white Britons to be deported. His appearance was soon followed by that of Richard Bertrand Spencer the American neo-Nazi, antisemitic conspiracy theorist and white supremacist.

I leave you to draw your own conclusions about why Rees Mogg is in favour of sending asylum seekers to Rwanda. To my mind, the person seeking redemption should be him.

GrauntyHelen Sun 17-Apr-22 21:34:43

For clarity the Archbishop is the senior member of clergy for the Church of England not head of the church in the UK and in fact not Head of the Church of England that's the Queen I do however completely agree with him !

DaisyAnne Sun 17-Apr-22 21:23:08

I heard him on R4 earlier. He is amazingly patronising (and a prat).

Oldbat1 Sun 17-Apr-22 21:10:34

Jacob Rees Mogg isn’t very pleased with the sermon. He says Justin Welby “hasn’t understood”.

DaisyAnne Sun 17-Apr-22 20:49:26

Bank holiday Sunday evening grannyactivist. I'm sure it's not you smile

grannyactivist Sun 17-Apr-22 19:37:45

Oh dear. I think I may have killed this thread. ?

grannyactivist Sun 17-Apr-22 18:33:58

The church and politics, what a minefield!

I am a Christian and I’m British - but I don’t claim the ‘values’ of either because I don’t know what exactly they are on any given day. What I do know is that Jesus required his followers to act in certain ways that included: welcoming the stranger, feeding the hungry, clothing those who needed it; visiting sick people and those in prison - and speaking up on behalf of those people who were poor and those who were marginalised and in need of a champion.

I think Justin Welby, in his sermon, has done well to speak up.

Bridie22 Sun 17-Apr-22 18:09:51

Thoughtful speech by the Archbishop...however he doesn't offer any solutions.

Galaxy Sun 17-Apr-22 18:04:49

I am afraid I dont think the churchs moral guidance has been particularly helpful in the past on say womens rights and rights for gay people so I am not sure I consider them reliable despite agreeing with them on this.

varian Sun 17-Apr-22 17:33:12

What would be the point of having Church of England Bishops in the House of Lords if they are not able to speak up and give moral guidance to the government?

Whitewavemark2 Sun 17-Apr-22 15:00:43

I think what many do not appreciate is that the Bishops of the Anglican Church have a constitutional role to advise the government of the day on these sort of matters.

Welby is carrying out this constitutional role by advising and making the advice public.

varian Sun 17-Apr-22 13:23:07

The Church of England was once called "the Conservative party at prayer". I don't think that's true today, but I wonder how Anglican Conservatives reacted to the Archbishop's sermon.

mumofmadboys Sun 17-Apr-22 13:10:18

Whether one is religious or not ,Justin Welby is worth listening to as he is a thoughtful, deep, intelligent and honest man who has really thought about these issues

DiamondLily Sun 17-Apr-22 10:30:47

Jewish leaders and Rabbis have also condemned this plan:

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/15/plans-to-offshore-asylum-seekers-to-rwanda-are-cruel-and-disturbing