What the country thinks about Johnson

Casdon

DaisyAnne

I’m not a Tory, but I think it’s going too far to claim they are all corrupt, incompetent, spineless or whatever adjective one wants to throw at them. It’s not as black and white as it seems, it never is, there will be a lot happening behind the scenes.

I don't believe I said anything like that Casdon. If we followed your thinking, it wouldn't matter how corrupt a government is. If they do behave in the way you seem to approve of, it is just a case of any government selling seats won by their party for the price of support. I think that is undemocratic. We may as well not bother to vote if they are only bound by party rather than conscience. I don't believe such transactional democracy is democracy. However, that appears to be your excuse for this dead and now rotting government.

You seem to see the world in black and white DaisyAnne. I’m not excusing the government or their MPs for what they have done, I’m saying that as individuals there are many shades of grey, and of course, as you put it, it is a transactional democracy - as it is with any government when the leadership is reliant on the fear of losing their jobs to keep the rest in line.

I am talking about lies, and spin taken to the point of propaganda. I can believe, all too easily, that you are not a Conservative Casdon. You seem to be going all out to support this particular far-right government. If those are your politics, I can understand that. Of course, politics is the art of the possible. This thread, however, is not a conversation about politics is it? It is about power.

You seem prepared to ignore the overriding of democracy and the spread of uncertainty and distrust in our systems of state that this government is causing. This government has stood behind a man who uses disinformation, misinformation and malinformation to stay in power. It is not for the "good of the people"; it is for the politicians jobs. It is not even for the good of a political view; it is for the good of the views of a man who believes he was born to rule. The politics that view produces are often not agreed upon by 50% of his MPs - but they still back him for the power it gives them.

Political theories are open to "the art of the possible"; this man's morality is truly indefensible. The morality of his MPs still has time to show itself as being something other than support for a would be dictator.

I saw that report on Sky about sexual misconduct in parliament Whitewavemark2. If the allegations are founded it’s shocking, 3 cabinet, 2 shadow cabinet members are included.
news.sky.com/story/three-conservative-cabinet-ministers-referred-to-watchdog-over-sexual-misconduct-allegations-report-12597632. As for Johnson, it doesn’t surprise me, anything in a skirt. Yuck.

I fervently hope that this story has not emanated from Tory MPs as this would be beyond anything that they have yet achieved in misogynistic behaviour.

Quite possibly.

And what does that say about Johnson - if he's so immature that he can't keep his eyes off a woman's legs in the House?

And, much as I don't have any warm feelings for his wife - it's not a very nice thing for her to hear either... not to mention the slur against Rayner...

Dear God, this Party, this leader, and the RW media stirring the pot... sometimes I despair, I really do.

DaisyAnne

^I’m not a Tory, but I think it’s going too far to claim they are all corrupt, incompetent, spineless or whatever adjective one wants to throw at them. It’s not as black and white as it seems, it never is, there will be a lot happening behind the scenes.^

I don't believe I said anything like that Casdon. If we followed your thinking, it wouldn't matter how corrupt a government is. If they do behave in the way you seem to approve of, it is just a case of any government selling seats won by their party for the price of support. I think that is undemocratic. We may as well not bother to vote if they are only bound by party rather than conscience. I don't believe such transactional democracy is democracy. However, that appears to be your excuse for this dead and now rotting government.

You seem to see the world in black and white DaisyAnne. I’m not excusing the government or their MPs for what they have done, I’m saying that as individuals there are many shades of grey, and of course, as you put it, it is a transactional democracy - as it is with any government when the leadership is reliant on the fear of losing their jobs to keep the rest in line.

I see that the Daily Mail is reporting that Johnson is being side tracked by Angela Rayners legs in the House of Commons, and that she is being deliberately provocative when she moves her legs.

What a shabby paper the DM is.

I fervently hope that this story has not emanated from Tory MPs as this would be beyond anything that they have yet achieved in misogynistic behaviour.

I believe that 56 of them have lately been reported for sexual misconduct.

Bluefox

I’d call that political propaganda and I’m surprised gransnet tolerate it.
Taken from a focus group, of what type of people??
Entirely unreliable and extremely lazy; there wasn’t even a question posed. ?

And I would call your post lacking completely in knowledge and fact. The question asked is reported in the OP. The company that carried this out is also noted (it's the bit after the word "Source"). This is an accredited company; why wouldn't GN accept it? Perhaps we should be asking them to delete the "fake" declarations in your post.

If you are interested in the truth, this www.jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results will take you to a page where you can download all questions and the complete results.

I’m not a Tory, but I think it’s going too far to claim they are all corrupt, incompetent, spineless or whatever adjective one wants to throw at them. It’s not as black and white as it seems, it never is, there will be a lot happening behind the scenes.

I don't believe I said anything like that Casdon. If we followed your thinking, it wouldn't matter how corrupt a government is. If they do behave in the way you seem to approve of, it is just a case of any government selling seats won by their party for the price of support. I think that is undemocratic. We may as well not bother to vote if they are only bound by party rather than conscience. I don't believe such transactional democracy is democracy. However, that appears to be your excuse for this dead and now rotting government.

MaizieD

^That’s not quite fair, as a number of Tory MPs have stood up to be counted.^

But the point I was trying to make, Casdon is that they've only done this because they have been pushed into it by Partygate. They have connived at the most appalling acts of this government (which I gave examples of) without turning a hair. and they're only turning on Johnson now that they are perceiving him to be a likely electoral liability.

They have a principle alright. Their principle is Party before Country.

I think the priority has always been to stay in power MaizieD, and many were seduced by the Boris ‘man of the people’ leadership style. Dissent has been managed by the whips, but that’s not to say there hasn’t been a number of occasions where MPs have dissented. It’s tightly stage managed, but I think it’s going too far to say that you should conclude from that that they are all the same.

MPs are signed up from day 1 to support their own government though DaisyAnne, that’s how it works. That does include, not just in this government, signing up to things you don’t personally agree with and not dissenting in parliament. I’m not a Tory, but I think it’s going too far to claim they are all corrupt, incompetent, spineless or whatever adjective one wants to throw at them. It’s not as black and white as it seems, it never is, there will be a lot happening behind the scenes.

MaizieD

^That’s not quite fair, as a number of Tory MPs have stood up to be counted.^

But the point I was trying to make, Casdon is that they've only done this because they have been pushed into it by Partygate. They have connived at the most appalling acts of this government (which I gave examples of) without turning a hair. and they're only turning on Johnson now that they are perceiving him to be a likely electoral liability.

They have a principle alright. Their principle is Party before Country.

To be fair, not all of them. Mark Harper speaks out for what he believes is right.

That’s not quite fair, as a number of Tory MPs have stood up to be counted.

But the point I was trying to make, Casdon is that they've only done this because they have been pushed into it by Partygate. They have connived at the most appalling acts of this government (which I gave examples of) without turning a hair. and they're only turning on Johnson now that they are perceiving him to be a likely electoral liability.

They have a principle alright. Their principle is Party before Country.

"Not fair", Casdon? I would not have thought offering a list showing the many who have now realised their support of a known liar is not now going to keep them in a job was particularly "fair". A rational argument would be to look back, listing those who have stood against the unparliamentary, unstatesmanlike behaviour at each and every opportunity. I will await your production of that list. I doubt there is one person who would come up to scratch.

This is the problem. We do not need a new Prime Minister; we need a new government. Sadly, we will be left with this dinosaur of an unfit for purpose, designed to fail government.

MaizieD

^It's hard to believe that they can't find someone better from among their ranks and doesn't say much about the quality of their MPs.^

The problem is that, although there might be decent 'traditional' tories in those ranks they have obediently trotted in to the lobbies in support of potentially international law breaking measures, repressive measures and, even more seriously, measures which have sought to seriously erode the powers of Parliament to check Executive power, all in the interests, not of the country and its citizens, but of maintaining the tory party in power.

They have aided and abetted the corrosion of our constitution and destruction of our economy and their recent apparent realisation that the government has been bad for the country has been forced on them by circumstances. Had it not been for Partygate we wouldn't be where we are now. They'd still be supporting Johnson...

It's hard to retain any respect for any of them or to feel that any of them could be better.

That’s not quite fair, as a number of Tory MPs have stood up to be counted. I don’t normally read the Telepgraph, but I got through the paywall for this list.
www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/04/22/full-list-tories-calling-boris-johnson-resign/
Not that I’m saying any on this list are leadership material because I don’t know of most of them. However, you can bet your life there are other letters of no confidence in where MPs haven’t declared their hands as yet. I’m not a fan of the Tories, but I don’t believe they are all unprincipled individuals.

ChrisK

So if B J goes who would gns consider a suitable replacement from the tories?

If you glance a little way down the list of topics you will find a whole thread in this. Called 'Who next for PM'

So if B J goes who would gns consider a suitable replacement from the tories?

I loved this. To get it you need to have seen Dorries’s video talking about her job as Culture, media and sports Secretary.

“Stop all the clocks, downstream the movies.
Prevent the balls from leaving the tennis pitches.
Silence the internets and nationalise the virus.
Bring out the culture, let the culture sports.”

It's hard to believe that they can't find someone better from among their ranks and doesn't say much about the quality of their MPs.

The problem is that, although there might be decent 'traditional' tories in those ranks they have obediently trotted in to the lobbies in support of potentially international law breaking measures, repressive measures and, even more seriously, measures which have sought to seriously erode the powers of Parliament to check Executive power, all in the interests, not of the country and its citizens, but of maintaining the tory party in power.

They have aided and abetted the corrosion of our constitution and destruction of our economy and their recent apparent realisation that the government has been bad for the country has been forced on them by circumstances. Had it not been for Partygate we wouldn't be where we are now. They'd still be supporting Johnson...

It's hard to retain any respect for any of them or to feel that any of them could be better.

“Daily reminder to Tory MPs that every day they cling to their rotten, narcissistic, incompetent, lying, unserious, irresponsible, amoral, shameless, criminal Prime Minister, the more they damage themselves, their Party and most importantly the country”.

AC

Unfortunately our "system" for holding a rogue PM to account is not robust enough.

It's based on the assumption that a PM will always have integrity and uphold the law. Even if the Privileges Committee found that BoJo has misled the House it is up to the House to decide what to do about it. So the Tory majority will defend and protect him if they still think he can win another election for them. What a farce!

Voters really need to keep making their feelings known to their local MPs. That is how Steve Baker of all people reached his latest view and if MPs want to retain voters' loyalty more MPs will follow.

Many Tory MPs seem to believe that there are no suitable alternatives to BoJo so some are desperately defending him. It's hard to believe that they can't find someone better from among their ranks and doesn't say much about the quality of their MPs.

That's what the public thinks. Why wouldn't GN tolerate people's responses?

Well said growstuff

It is a mixed bag of opinion - as one might expect - on Johnson's tenure as PM so far. Some comments are more thoughtful than others, both 'for' and 'against'... but it gives an overall snapshot of public opinion (in so far as these polls are an accurate reflection of it).

I can't think why it shouldn't be tolerated. The public is very much focused on the man at the moment for obvious reasons, and as long as the question posed is neutral and not skewed to give a desired response, I can't see it as propaganda!

Where's Dominic Cummings these days? Just wondering...

Incidentally, the founders of JLPartners used to work at 10 Downing Street and for Conservative Campaign Headquarters.

Here are some of the original comments:

“He was the right person to get Brexit done but now he needs to go, He is a liar and has broken the law we need a change.”

“I used to think he was ok but now he should resign after the breach of lockdown.”

“Liar and untrustworthy”

“Out of touch criminal”

“Stupid, bad hair, liar”

“He needs to be fired from his current role PM. He has broken so many covid rules and ain’t playing a part with helping the people with their bills and high cost living”

“Law breaker, liar and not for the people”

“At first I really liked him and felt he would be good for the country, but now he has been in power he has been one of the worst prime ministers ever… he is so out of touch and has no idea how the majority of people live their lives.”

“Utter anus”

“Liar should resign”

“I was confident in Boris and think he did an ok job throughout the pandemic but I’m very disappointed in the actions over lockdown parties. I didn’t want to see him go but I fear there is no other option now due to the recent revelations and fines.”

“Unprintable. I have always voted Conservative but this Prime minister is a disgrace in so many ways.”

“At first when covid 19 first started I thought he handled it really well however now it came out about all the parties I have lost a lot of respect for him.”

“I voted for the Conservatives at the last General Election, and was happy to have Boris Johnson as leader. However I have become disillusioned with him over time… He is a flawed character, and I fear is becoming an electoral liability for the Conservatives.”

“Too weak”

“a typical politician never admitting blame”

“Incompetent. Lier untrustworthy dangerous. Out of his depth. Stupid.”

“I only voted for him because he was the only one who could deliver Brexit - I won't vote for him again”

“i feel like he is kind of an idiot honestly”

“Doing a fairly good job given the circumstances with Covid and Ukraine war. However he has done some stupid things like parties during lockdowns.”

“He is a bit of a buffoon at times but in the Ukrainian war he has shown his metal”

“I used to think he was a buffoon but he had to step up to the mark with covid so went up in my estimation”

“I think he did a pretty good job in such an unusual situation. That's all anyone can do.”

“I think he’s done a good job but it’s wrong what he has done”

“I think he has done as well as he could over bad times. Although he has let everyone down with partygate.”

“he sorted Brexit, went through the pandemic, and now dealing with the war.”

That's what the public thinks. Why wouldn't GN tolerate people's responses?

"We asked a nationally representative sample of the British public what they think about Boris Johnson." (JLPartnersPolls)

Bluefox

I’d call that political propaganda and I’m surprised gransnet tolerate it.
Taken from a focus group, of what type of people??
Entirely unreliable and extremely lazy; there wasn’t even a question posed. ?

That's what focus groups do!

It's not political propaganda. It's a discussions starter. I assume you think that the words don't reflect Johnson.