High court ruling on care homes

19 March 2020, NHS guidance said that "unless required to be in hospital, patients must not remain in an NHS bed".

This policy was implemented to free up beds in advance of an expected surge in coronavirus patients.

On 2 April, the rules on discharging to care homes were clarified, saying "negative [coronavirus] tests are not required prior to transfers/admissions into the care home".

Even elderly patients who tested positive could be admitted to care homes, according to the document, if measures - such as wearing personal protective equipment (PPE) and isolation - were used.

From 15 April, the government said that all patients discharged from hospitals would be tested for coronavirus.

By this time, an estimated 25,000 patients had been discharged to care homes.

Whitewavemark2

Katie59

What was the alternative, bearing in mind that hospital beds were needed for Covid patients?.

Certainly not to seed covid into care homes that were free from it.

I assume they had not been diagnosed with Covid
So where should they have gone

Katie59

What was the alternative, bearing in mind that hospital beds were needed for Covid patients?.

Certainly not to seed covid into care homes that were free from it.

Someone with covid = a covid patient.

We had several residents discharged to our care home with Covid. The number of deaths was heartbreaking

Katie59

What was the alternative, bearing in mind that hospital beds were needed for Covid patients?.

If the old people discharged to care homes had covid, then they were covid patients and should have stayed in hospital to be treated.

Or is 20,000 care home covid deaths OK by you because beds were freed up for others?

What was the alternative, bearing in mind that hospital beds were needed for Covid patients?.

I am sure this will be dragged out. However, unless the party in power at the time manage permanent power - their only actual policy - then they will, ultimately, be brought to book.

I know one of the two women who brought this case and I cannot say how much I have admired her quiet strength and determination as this case has dragged on. I am sure she will be pleased to have the government’s actions declared unlawful.

However listening to the PM repeat the lie that asymptomatic transmission was not known about at that time is yet another slap in the face for the families who lived or worked in care homes and died unnecessarily. That he had not the grace to respond to the judgement with a simple apology and an admission that the government got it wrong is sadly typical.

MayBee70

I just checked out Dr John Campbells blog of 14 April 2020 in which he pointed out that China said that 4/5 of cases were asymptomatic. Can someone explain to me why I knew that covid could be transmitted asymptomatically quite early on in the pandemic but the government didn’t? And, even now there is no apology, no admittance of any kind of guilt other than saying ‘they didn’t know’. Maybe Johnson was too busy sorting out his divorce and the government were focussed on getting brexit done….and Hancock was too focussed on his personal relationships…

I thought exactly that when I listened to Johnson lying in PMQs today.

I can’t find the other thread? If is still up I can ask for this to be zapped if you would prefer.

So the High Court has made this ruling ..... and now what? Nothing I would guess, judging by all that has gone before. This government is allowed to get away with anything, now that respect for democracy and the rule of law are being flushed down the pan.

My Dad was in a nursing home, and exactly the same thing happened. Hospital patients dumped in there, with no regard for the residents. Lack of PPE added to the fray.

My Dad died in there, without family there, coincidentally on the date of one of Johnson's "Bring a bottle" party. ?

It's unclear what he died of, so it got entered as "with Covid" although I don't think he did actually have it.

He'd been given three tests in a week - one positive, one inconclusive and one negative.?

The letter from Simon Stevens NHS Chief Excutive and Amanda Pritchard NHS Chief Operating Office telling hospitals to clear beds was dated 17 March 2020.

Doctors knew as early as January 2020 that Covid was spreading via people who were asymptomatic.

Interviews with doctors and public health officials in more than a dozen countries show that for two crucial months — and in the face of mounting genetic evidence — Western health officials and political leaders played down or denied the risk of symptomless spreading ...

The two-month delay was a product of faulty scientific assumptions, academic rivalries and, perhaps most important, a reluctance to accept that containing the virus would take drastic measures.

www.nytimes.com/2020/06/27/world/europe/coronavirus-spread-asymptomatic.html

Think I have just heard Boris promise an investigation into this, which will be publicised ‘in due course”. Ha ha, how long have we to wait fir the urgent Sue Gray report? Still waiting !

Also still waiting for 40 new hospitals, 45,000 new doctors and 30,000 new nurses..or was that the other way round, oh and all the millions saved on the side of that big bus.....I forget the rest and won’t be holding my breath.

I just checked out Dr John Campbells blog of 14 April 2020 in which he pointed out that China said that 4/5 of cases were asymptomatic. Can someone explain to me why I knew that covid could be transmitted asymptomatically quite early on in the pandemic but the government didn’t? And, even now there is no apology, no admittance of any kind of guilt other than saying ‘they didn’t know’. Maybe Johnson was too busy sorting out his divorce and the government were focussed on getting brexit done….and Hancock was too focussed on his personal relationships…

Farzanah

I was advised by a poster that they doubted this would be government but doctors decisions!! I will try and close my thread.

Whoever said that needs to watch the PMQs link I posted. It was a government directive to empty NHS beds because of the anticipated influx of covid patients.

There was a huge fuss about it at the time.

Care homes were also hit by the PPE shortage. We discussed that at length, to, here on Gnet at the time.

Where was your thread, Farzanah? I couldn't find it. Has it been removed now?

I was advised by a poster that they doubted this would be government but doctors decisions!! I will try and close my thread.

I have started a thread on this.

I read that today but was not sure what if any action will be taken.

My mum was one of those patients discharged from hospital to a care home in April 2020 but she was tested twice before being moved. The hospital were testing all discharges going to care homes and the care home were refusing to admit anyone, from hospital or from private houses, without a test. It was a home for dementia residents so keeping new residents isolated was challenging. I’m grateful that both the hospital and the care home were insistent on testing at such an early stage in the pandemic. The care home have not had any deaths from Covid throughout the pandemic yet they encouraged visiting within the guidelines without unnecessary restrictions.

I do wonder if there will be any repercussions or recommendations following this ruling.

I think it shows that we urgently need an investigation into the way the government handled the whole issue.

From the cash to cronies to care homes, a light needs shining on it all.

Apparently Hancock is writing a book detailing what a great job he did as Health Secretary.

Hancock said on several occasions that 'a protective ring had been thrown round care homes. He is now denying it.

Doesn't he know that the internet never forgets?

From Full Fact June 2021

fullfact.org/health/matt-hancock-protective-ring-care-homes/

Starmer queried the discharge of untested patients to care homes in May 2020 (and quotes HAncock's statement). This thread shows a clip from PMQs May 2020.

twitter.com/itvnews/status/1263064321271218176

I need to find out more about today's judgement, though. It's not clear what 'law' the government was actually breaking.

How on earth can Hancock deny culpability???