Girls and Physics. It's too hard for them. ?

Never been a teacher. Wouldn't know.

Personally I don't think it will make much difference on a local level. Parents usually vote with their feet, and I can't see any parent removing their child from a school where their child feels happy and fulfilled in their learning.

I agree with that statement but she was speaking as the appointed adviser to the Government on social mobility. She is ill-informed, her statements were incorrect and consequently she would appear not to be the best person to be advising the government on education as a means to social mobility, especially for girls.

X post

foxie48

Glorianny I read the Times article when I saw you had posted it. It was written by Flora Carr, a young writer and journalist but not anyone with any particular experience in education. It was a personal view without any academic underpinning. George Duoblys, the physics teacher she quotes, is similarly expressing a personal view, do look him up he writes a bit of a blog, he taught for three and a half years in London then quit teaching. There's lots of articles written about this school but I think they carry more weight when they are written by people with experience of education and teaching. John Bald has written about the school, I didn't post a link because I noticed he is a member of the Conservative Education Society and therefore, would be viewed as biased but he does has an impressive CV and a wealth of experience. He does, however, describe a very different experience of visiting the school though.

foxie As you mentioned John Bald, I'll just say that his CV is mainly a lie. I know that for a fact because I worked with him many years ago and I've followed his rants and attempts to embellish his CV. I've crossed swords with him on a number of occasions and I suspect that's the reason Birbalsingh blocked me on Twitter. There's a little clique behind efforts to make education more as they would like and he's in the thick of it. I won't say more because it could identify me, but I can't take anything the man says seriously - Conservative or not.

Callistemon21

^Personally I don't think it will make much difference on a local level. Parents usually vote with their feet, and I can't see any parent removing their child from a school where their child feels happy and fulfilled in their learning^.

I agree with that statement but she was speaking as the appointed adviser to the Government on social mobility. She is ill-informed, her statements were incorrect and consequently she would appear not to be the best person to be advising the government on education as a means to social mobility, especially for girls.

That's my issue too Callistemon, not how good her school is.

I suspect that's the reason Birbalsingh blocked me on Twitter

No other views allowed or considered.
That's worrying, shutting down debate.

foxie48

Glorianny I read the Times article when I saw you had posted it. It was written by Flora Carr, a young writer and journalist but not anyone with any particular experience in education. It was a personal view without any academic underpinning. George Duoblys, the physics teacher she quotes, is similarly expressing a personal view, do look him up he writes a bit of a blog, he taught for three and a half years in London then quit teaching. There's lots of articles written about this school but I think they carry more weight when they are written by people with experience of education and teaching. John Bald has written about the school, I didn't post a link because I noticed he is a member of the Conservative Education Society and therefore, would be viewed as biased but he does has an impressive CV and a wealth of experience. He does, however, describe a very different experience of visiting the school though.

Regardless of who wrote it did you not think it was relevant that in 2018 a physics teacher questioned her methods for science and then in 2022 she's saying that girls don't want to do physics? Isn't it remotely possible that there is a problem there?

As far as teaching maths goes it is a subject that cannot be taught by rote. Especially to girls. I should know. I was a good girl at school who was taught traditionally. I learned to chant my tables. Unfortunately I thought they were some sort of magic spell. It all worked very well until maths became more difficult and I was swamped. I didn't know what was wrong until I trained as a teacher and realised I had never developed any real concept of numbers. I had just been manipulating the symbols. And that's the danger of teaching by rote.

Callistemon I know I sound like a conspiracy theorist (I'm not), but I'm very concerned that there's a group of people behind a number of changes which are happening in education and schools.

I don't think anybody could deny that there are some pupils who aren't getting a good deal, but it's not so easy to solve, as some people think because everybody has a different idea of what education should be about. Moreover, there's the issue about whether parents' and the state's ideas should be imposed on children.

What we now have in England is a group of people with very right-wing views about education, who are very powerful and have links with the media and the press. In many cases, their views aren't evidence-based. They are central to the right-wing culture war and claim all sorts of things about schools which just aren't true. They invent problems which need fixing and then claim to have solved the problems. What they actually want is to impose an idea of education which includes imparting knowledge (because they know best) without giving opportunities to question. That's what happens in countries such as China. They don't tolerate any rational debate about what's going on.

PS. There shouldn't be a comma between "solve" and "as".

Here's a video. Birbalsingh doesn't believe in the bigoty of low expectations. She would LOVE all of them to do Physics and Maths. But it doesn't always happen in her school. I couldn't agree more.

youtu.be/lXfIA8aLtN8

I'm very annoyed that people expect discipline in public schools but not in state schools, and that makes teaching impossible.

What do you mean by the bigotry of low expectations? I don't think many teachers believe in it either. Birbalsingh really isn't the only person who works hard to help pupils to succeed, although most of them don't have the means to get people to produce the kind of video you've linked to or have the contacts to do so. This is precisely what I meant when I wrote about inventing problems.

If she's so keen on all her pupils continuing with maths and physics, why didn't she say that in the Select Committee hearing and give some explanation why it isn't happening? It's not what she said. She said it didn't bother her and waffled on about poetry being important.

Birbalsingh has been appointed to an important national role and she's shown that she's not up to the job, which was a concern to the panel before she was even appointed.

Interested

I'm very annoyed that people expect discipline in public schools but not in state schools, and that makes teaching impossible.

That's absolute nonsense! There are many state schools with good discipline and people certainly do expect it.

What does this have to do with girls and physics?

I'm fed up with this Labour and Conservative divide. How dare Labour patronise poor children. All children need schools with good discipline and good teachers. That's what Public schools provide.

Interested

I'm fed up with this Labour and Conservative divide. How dare Labour patronise poor children. All children need schools with good discipline and good teachers. That's what Public schools provide.

Oh dear! Do you actually have the Conservative Party handbook in front of you? The Labour Party doesn't patronise poor children and it really isn't only public schools which provide good discipline.

What does this have to do with girls and physics?

ALL state schools should have good discipline. My daughter did physics and Maths. However, many girls did not choose too. As far as I can see, I respect her and I'm glad she speaks for me and the future of children.

I'm fed up with the postcode lottery as regards schools. My daughters went to a Grammar school (Tiffin Girls). They had to compete for the very few places. They were clever. I would like all children to have the same education.

Interested, my youngest went to Public School, the other 5 went to different State Schools. In the Public School, the classes were a little smaller, the teachers put in a lot of hours at the weekends for the sports, drama, music departments but the teachers were no better or worse than good State School Teachers. The difference from what I could see was that they were better supported.
The children who went to a "good state school" did well but things changed over the years with discipline getting harder to maintain because of new policies regarding entry. There were no minimum requirements for academic prowess but in the early years, the parents who wanted their children to go there were church goers with a respect for education. When the rules changed, the difference was acute. That said, I'm not sure they were really used to kids with problems so who is to know if it was the school's fault or the difficulties the kids were experiencing.
The others went to your average (under achieving) local Comp. If you had problems, a lot of work was directed at the under achievers, anybody else appeared to just float along! The discipline was dire, the inability to recruit and keep good staff hampered any measures to give a consistent approach.
Yes, discipline is key to a good education for all children and equally important in order to stop the burn out of good teachers who want to work in education.
Although I sent my son to Public School it was only after he had attended a state secondary school (an old High School) where the discipline was dire, teachers couldn't cope and the parental support was lacking. Let's not blame the teachers, let's start looking at the parents!

What does this have to do with girls and physics?

And don't patronise me by calling me a Conservative. I vote for different parties depending on their policies and the individuals' characters. You do realise that if people always voted for the same party, there would never be change of Government!

Why are people still going on and on about what a good school she runs? What the discipline is like?

She said something that was undeniably wrong, and she said it in a Select Committee. What she said is damaging to the expectations of girls in education. Many people who know that what she said was wrong, have told her why its wrong.

So what does she do? Listen to the people who actually know what they are talking about and revise her views? Or turn up on every media outlet she can, telling us all we didn't listen to what she was saying, then tweet about it ad nauseam for 4 days, telling us all she's being picked on?

And now we're told its political. Its not political. I don't have children, but if I did, I wouldn't let her anywhere near them. She's not a good role model. She doesn't think the truth matters and she has a victim complex.

George Orwell was right, wasn't he? Ignorance is strength.

If you look at Youtube video, she talks about a LOT about parental involvement.

youtu.be/lXfIA8aLtN8

If you look at Youtube video, she talks about a LOT about parental involvement

That's fine but what has it to do with her rôle as a Government adviser?

Interested My uncle was a head boy at Tiffin (Boys), I went to a direct grant grammar and most of my family went to either grammars schools or academic public schools. I'm well aware of the advantages those schools have.

I taught in comprehensive schools for over 30 years and my children went to good state comprehensives, where they excelled (I guess they're clever too). I'm well aware of the disadvantages those schools have. I know very well that good discipline is a key to good education, but your claims that only public schools (which Tiffin Girls isn't BTW) have good discipline is absurd.

What does this have to do with girls and physics?

Interested

And don't patronise me by calling me a Conservative. I vote for different parties depending on their policies and the individuals' characters. You do realise that if people always voted for the same party, there would never be change of Government!

Wow! You don't say!