Sue Gray's report said “The excessive consumption of alcohol is not appropriate in a professional workplace at any time."

I think everything about parliament needs a complete overhaul. The shouting and filibustering is ridiculous. It’s great fun when everything is going smoothly but at times of crisis we need something a bit more grown up. It isn’t an old boys club. It’s the government of this country and our lives and well being depend upon it.

I can only think "standards" must be taken outside the governing party OakDryad. It's not as if this is just a company. It's politics. They really shouldn't be policing there own standards. I would want no less than a normal job contract would dictate.

Of course they should DaisyAnne.

I have a strong suspicion that Rees Mogg has been as the cider again with his ludicrious Why does a fish finger need an ID? remark. I'm sure the Electoral Reform Society will have a witty answer to that.

West Country members are not having a good weekend, are they? I suggest Rees Mogg meets his colleague George Eustice, member for Camborne and Redruth and Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to explain the post-Brexit legislation on importing or moving fish to the UK.

It's like Lord Frost so furious about the Northern Ireland protocol that he negotiated. (Also the man being touted to stand for Tractor Parish's seat. )

How I wish HIGNFY was on at the moment. Looking forward to the next Eye.

Kate1949 I left my local authority job in 2016, we too had drinks after 5 in the office for people leaving, Christmas etc and often went to pub on a Friday lunchtime. Prior to that I worked for a large company who had a licensed, subsidised clubhouse in the grounds, left there in 2000.

In December ‘21 the Sunday Times reported that all but one of twelve lavatory areas tested for it showed traces of cocaine. The Speaker said he would be raising the issue with the Met.

How many MPs regularly consume alcohol on parliamentary premises during their working hours.

There must be teetotallers, light and moderate drinkers and those who do not drink when working, among those 600 plus members.

In 2016, Kings College London attempted to conduct a study of alcohol consumption by Members of Parliament asking all 650 members to complete a short survey. Only 146 (22%) responded. (Median time taken by respondents was 4 minutes.) Older men were particular under-represented in the results.

Reseachers explained that:

Alcohol use among civil servants has been studied extensively in the Whitehall studies that explored social determinants of health, with clear findings of adverse effects on cardiovascular and cognitive function associated with drinking at levels above recommended guidelines. Although high workloads, job stress and using alcohol to unwind after work are known to be associated with risky drinking this has so far not been studied in UK parliamentarians.

We found a higher proportion of MPs with risky drinking compared with the English population and similar weighted proportions when compared with corporate managers, all managers and high-income groups.

The overall rate of risky drinking did not significantly differ from groups comparable in both socioeconomic and occupational status. However, the findings of higher weighted averages for drinking at least four times per week, drinking at least 10 units on a typical drinking day, drinking 6 units or more in a single drinking episode and feeling guilty about their drinking raises concerns both about overall weekly consumption and over possible binge drinking.

A weakness of the study was the low response rate felt to be due to:

a possible fear of being identified, of stigmatisation, and of the potential reputational damage associated with adverse media coverage may have influenced the response rate. We tried to reduce these biases by promoting the survey in parliament, by sending several reminders, and by stressing the brevity as well as the anonymity of the survey. In spite of this, the response rate was low. Generally, MPs are a difficult survey population to engage, which has also been confirmed in a 2008 internal UK parliament survey, where only 14.5% (94 MPs) responded.

bmjopen.bmj.com/content/10/3/e034929

Which means we do not know.

Fascinating that this research has been attempted OakDryad. As little as it tells us, I think it is on the side of getting away from the club for "gentlemen" who feel they have the right to rule and more to a job they are employed to do.

We have already gone some way with it but oh, how slow is the updating of this dinosaur of democracy.

No, the short answer is we don’t know.

I see that Kwasi Kwarteng is today using the same intense environment, long hours defence as Ben Wallace over misogyny, harrassment and other bad behaviour.

The KCL study observed that:

Work-related stress is known to be associated with long working hours and time pressures, lack of emotional support, family and constituency problems and job insecurity. It is also associated with risky drinking, especially in work environments where alcohol is readily accessible.

Over three quarters of the participants in this study were unaware of the Parliamentary Health and Wellbeing Service. Given the considerable stigma associated with mental health problems, there is a need for MPs to be better informed about their own wellbeing service, to reduce stigma and improve help seeking within Parliament.

They have to admit there’s a problem though and we come back to the fact that Parliament, for the most part, polices is own behaviour and do a poor job of it. And as the businessinsider report showed, it works to the whips’ advantage to have a culture of drinking.

I think one of the problems is that Parliament has no clear working hours, so that MPs, as well as having working hours are also often there, for many extra hours waiting for votes, to meet people etc.
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Years ago, in the days of main frame computing, a friend's husband, would do a full days work but, with colleagues, often have to wait until 8.00pm or 9.00pm until their allotted time to use the computer came up, and almost inevitably they would end up in the pub and/or the chippy. I suspect something similar lies behind a lot of Parliamentary drinking.

I have been to the House of Commons several times to visit and talk to my MP and each time we have been taken into the bar to discuss the issue I was there for. I think we were taken to the bar because it was a large area with comfortable seating, where it was easy to talk in a relaxed manner. Looking at images online of the tea rooms it looks more like a restaurant, with chairs round tables laid up to eat.

What is needed is for bars ot be turned into cafes offering comfortable informal seating and light non-alcoholic drinks.

For the record, I have never drunk alcohol on any of my visits to the H of C, just coffee or soft drinks.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/campaign-to-end-subsidised-food-and-alcohol-in-parliament-reignited-following-free-school-meal-snub-206760/amp/

I’d ban alcohol in the HoC. The workplace is inappropriate for the consumption of substances that lower inhibitions or distort clear thinking/

No, the short answer is we don’t know. OakDryad Sun 01-May-22 23:07:12

I bow to your obviously better trained mind.

It seems that many MP's need to grow up and behave themselves. And there should be no alcohol whatsoever.
But also I do think their working hours should be regularised.

Iam64

I’d ban alcohol in the HoC. The workplace is inappropriate for the consumption of substances that lower inhibitions or distort clear thinking/

Heaven forbid that they are sober when making decisions about legislation for our country.

Except some aren't as one junior MP reported to businessinsider - see upthread

party whips "would much rather some members, especially those more rebellious ones, get inebriated so they are easier to guide as to which lobby to go through" when voting.

Of course, most MPs aren't making decisions about legislation for our country. They're just there to make up the numbers. They vote as they are told to, regardless of their own views on what they are voting for.

In a way it's immaterial whether or not they follow debates in the chamber or spend the time scrolling for tractor porn on their phones.

A quote from 'Iolanthe', the Gilbert & Sullivan comic opera written in 1882

When in that House MPs divide,
If they've a brain and cerebellum too,
They have to leave that brain outside,
And vote just as their leaders tell 'em to

Nthing has changed much in 140 years

Casdon

I can’t think of any circumstances at all in which it is appropriate to drink alcohol at work. It’s been banned for NHS employees for over 30 years.

My DH worked for the railways all of his working life. All staff had regular alcohol and drugs tests including admin staff.

Wouldn't better awareness and regulation be enough? No need to be over puritanical. All MPs to be warned to stay sober; bar servers encouraged to refuse people who've clearly drunk enough; television cameras to home in on people who are asleep in the chamber.

Surely many, many of us used to go out of the office for lunch with a drink from time to time with no ill effects.

However near other bars and restaurants may be it's a security hassle and a half to get out and in again.

Many, many years ago it was considered ok to have the occasional drink at work for Christmas and odd ‘celebrations’, even in government offices ( I know, I was there). Just like with smoking, that has long gone now. Although it has long been a tradition among Parliamentarians to have alcohol on the premises of what is after all their workplace, I think it is appropriate to move with the times and to no longer officially allow it as part of the boys club that Westminster often appears to be. Restaurants and other food outlets of course are fine and necessary (as long as dry). But actually I doubt that will change the culture as it will be all too easy to sneak in the bottles if required. Plenty of private offices after all! And let’s not totally apportion the blame to the men; in today’s. world women are just as capable of liking the odd tipple or more! On the plus (?) side, if the rules were broken it’s yet ANOTHER stick to beat politicians over the head with by our media and does a good job of deflecting criticism of the REALLY important issues this country is facing.

yes that's a good point.
someone rang lbc to say that the lowliest sweeper-upper at westminster station is absolutely forbidden from reporting for work having consumed any alcohol/drugs.
the station of parliament, down whose stairs many MPs stagger, and have to be watched out for by station staff, lest they have an accident.

I worked in public service, working directly with service users and multi discp agencies. In the early 80’s it was commonplace for colleagues to have a pub lunch, many including an alcoholic drink. By the mud 80’s the culture was changing, the occasional lunch out of the office took place but no one drank alcohol. We weren’t directed, we realised one drink could leave the small of alcohol, which was offensive to the people we were paid to support.
That’s the key point surely, we employ these mp’s we pay their wages. We have significant substance misuse problems in the UK. We don’t need people under the influence of alcohol or Columbia’s marching powder supposedly running our country

I agree it is not appropriate in any workplace, and just a quick half at lunchtime counts just the same for the whole list of reasons that have been mentioned.