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The Daily Mail is now asking for proof of inocence! Surely the self-imposed purda of the police should now be lifted?

(18 Posts)
DaisyAnne Mon 02-May-22 00:01:26

Just how extreme can this get. The police self-impose a delay on the release of fines should now be lifted. No one else is taking any notice of any form of "election purda".

Proof of inocence is a logical falacy as those who debated at Oxford should know. The typical unanswerable loaded question.

Lucca Mon 02-May-22 01:48:10

Appalling journalism

ElaineI Mon 02-May-22 08:31:09

DM is a terrible paper with ridiculous headlines which contradict each other on the same page. Also often misspelled and ungrammatical.

DaisyAnne Mon 02-May-22 08:34:00

It certainly is Lucca.

I wonder if those who like researching, or have knowledge from their areas of work/interest (or can google more efficiently smile can help with this. I looked up "Purdah before local elections" and got this.

Purdah (/ˈpɜːrdə/) or the pre-election period is the period in the United Kingdom between the announcement of an election and the formation of the new elected government. It affects civil servants, who must be politically impartial,[1] preventing central and local government from making announcements about any new or controversial government initiatives that could be seen to be advantageous to any candidates or parties in the forthcoming election. Purdah does not apply to candidates for political office. Where a court determines that actual advantage has been given to a candidate, this may amount to a breach of Section 2 of the Local Government Act 1986.

This led to me looking up "are the police civil servants". In one place it said they were; in another, it said they were not.

I am also trying to find a legal definition of "purda" for journalism so I can compare how this affects the police and how it affects journalists.

It would be good to see how the silencing of journalists compares to the silencing of the police in this instance as it is affecting what we know before we vote.

DaisyAnne Mon 02-May-22 09:16:50

Another headline that has been put out to garner votes. Does the government, having brief this out, have to go through with it - not a bit. It is a very dodgy government - I think many already knew that. They are also manipulating very dodgy rules.

Of course, this is the right to buy from housing associations at a discounted price. The PM has developed these plans in the last two weeks. How about applying the same rules to privately owned rentals PM?

OakDryad Mon 02-May-22 09:21:50

You might find this helpful DaisyAnne. Independent Press Standards Organisation (ipso) on "purdah".

... newspapers are free to ‘editorialise and campaign’, but that they must clearly distinguish between comment, conjecture and fact.

www.ipso.co.uk/news-press-releases/blog/ipso-blog-election-reporting-faqs/

As for the police, the Association of Police and Crime Commissioners (APCC) issues guidance to Police and Crime Commissioners (PCCs) and their offices about the handling of purdah during the election of PCC's but that's a different matter.

As for the postponement of issuing fines that the Police themselves think appropriate, I would say it hinges on the right of appeal. A fine issued during a time of election which influences the electorate might later be overturned on appeal.

fairfraise Mon 02-May-22 09:33:28

Well l learn something new on GN every day - purdah in the above sense!

OakDryad Mon 02-May-22 09:42:26

I’m not sure that Richard Holden MP for North West Durham, who is making a lot of the noise about this, is doing himself any favours. He holds a very small majority (1144) in the red wall seat formerly held by Laura Pidcock. He’s now starting to climb the career ladder and will be desperate to hang on to that seat in the next GE.

Holden was a former aide to Defence Secretary Michael Fallon who was forced to resign over inappropriate sexual behaviour. Holden was also accused and tried over allegations of sexual assault but found not guilty. It was a case in which Carrie Symonds had given evidence against him after which Holden’s career was effectively put on hold when Johnson blocked the then Chief Whip Mark Stevens’s recommendation that Holden be given a government post.

He’s now back in favour as a newly-appointed PPS in Nadine Dorries’ Department for Digital Culture, Media and Sport. Nadine Dorries who wants to diminish the BBC and sell off Channel 4. Remember it was Laura Pidcock who campaigned against the removal of free TV licences for those aged 75 and over albeit falling foul of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards in he way that she did it.

Richard Holden had been very active and vocal in local anti-littering and clean-up campaigns and quite rightly so. Unfortunately, he called people “litter-tossers”… and was then caught littering himself during an election count and fined £100. Littering is a criminal offence.

Returning yet again to the Ministerial Code and the Seven Principles of Public Life, my question is whether Holden, in seeking to undermine Starmer in the run up to the local elections, is acting selflessly or in his own self interest?

Whitewavemark2 Mon 02-May-22 09:49:20

Of course we do know that Labour’s policy of repealing the Non-Dom tax status is going down like a lead balloon with the owners.

All registered as Non dom for tax purposes. They like to tell us what the law should be and how to run our country, but pay nothing or very little towards the greater good.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 02-May-22 10:21:52

Apparently the photo of Starmer eating in the DM is one where he is sitting next to Frank Dobson

Who died in 2019. ?????

DM demanding proof of Starmers innocence.

I suggest that they ask the police

Who declared him innocent ???.

What nonsense it all is.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 02-May-22 10:22:42

Oh I didn’t mean it was hilarious that Dobson had died??

OakDryad Mon 02-May-22 10:35:37

The picure where Starmer is wearing a blue sweater? He was indeed with Frank Dobson. It was taken in 2015 while they were canvassing in Euston, London.

The Daily Mail is in breach of the ipso code on reporting during "purdah":

Clause 1 of the Editors’ Code deals specifically with the issue of accurate of reporting. It says that the press must take care not to publish inaccurate, misleading or distorted information or images, including headlines not supported by the text. It also makes clear that comment, conjecture and fact must be clearly distinguished.

www.ipso.co.uk/news-press-releases/blog/ipso-blog-election-reporting-faqs/

Full picture of Starmer with Dobson.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/20/general-election-keir-starmer-dream-labour-seat

DaisyAnne Mon 02-May-22 10:47:30

Brilliant. Thank you all.

fairfraise every day is certainly a schoolday on GN and I love it for that. It should be prescribed on the NHS. I wouldn't hurt the NHS budget and I am convinced that stimulating the brain helps in so many ways.

OD I didn't know anyone, other than me, was "making a lot of noise" about this. I shall check it out later (I need to go shopping smile)

WWM ... and I bet the Non-Dom status - another plot twist to wealth - is not getting half the coverage of the "stories" the DM and others have come up with. ODs quote is interesting. I think this bit .. must clearly distinguish between comment, conjecture and fact. could be used to challenge some papers.

MaizieD Mon 02-May-22 10:57:48

Oh, interesting WRT the Mail article of the OP, (you have to open the link):

Withnail Jones@withnailjones
·

The picture on the left is in a Daily Mail article about Keir Starmer breaking lockdown rules. The picture on the right depicts Keir Starmer sitting next to Frank Dobson who died in 2019.

twitter.com/withnailjones/status/1521044573883146241

OakDryad Mon 02-May-22 11:26:24

I have complained to ipso about the use of a distorted image meant to mislead during a period of election "purdah". Not something I have ever done before so it'll be interesting to see what they say and what the procedure is.

Keffie12 Mon 02-May-22 11:34:16

DM is simply using this as a distraction technique from the local elections this week. It will work on a few. Not many though.

The situation is easily provable: there is a picture taken from outside the window. A check on it you can easily see its the inside of the labour offices.

You can see what was happening and its obvious what it is. 6 people were allowed to be in an office environment. They had to eat.

The DM know this. It's a weapon. The Express, Mail and Sun run the government.

They are run by non tax payers here (Mudroch, Barclay brothers etc) for their benefit

Keffie12 Mon 02-May-22 11:36:02

Keffie12

DM is simply using this as a distraction technique from the local elections this week. It will work on a few. Not many though.

The situation is easily provable: there is a picture taken from outside the window. A check on it you can easily see its the inside of the labour offices.

You can see what was happening and its obvious what it is. 6 people were allowed to be in an office environment. They had to eat.

The DM know this. It's a weapon. The Express, Mail and Sun run the government.

They are run by non tax payers here (Mudroch, Barclay brothers etc) for their benefit

They were on the campaign trail for the Hartlepool by-election. Added this if anyone unsure of all the details

DaisyAnne Mon 02-May-22 11:40:06

Shopping put off until after lunch and I am just sitting here saying "wow". They are just abusing the electorate and they really don't care, do they?

I have seen a raised interest in the lack of dentists over the last couple of days but people don't seem to realise this is what they want to do to the NHS. If you pay anything for a dentist at the moment you will be paying for NHS (so-called) treatments soon if not already.

I mention this as it has had so little coverage in the papers. Journalists deserve praise for their work in Ukraine but, at every other turn, I feel we are being completely let down.