Nationalism the fashionable form of government

nadateturbe

Our intelligent government certainly didn't think through the long term effects before agreeing to the Protocol, and NI doing EU checks.

They thought the EU would agree to concessions but they didn’t and won’t because it makes tax evasion, smuggling and trade rule breaking possible.

A border within Ireland is unthinkable, that is an empty threat there would be major problems for the UK, far worse than the border checks that are happening now. For trade or personal use the hard fact is that it’s easier to buy from EU sellers and sidestep the UK.

The UK could have adopted EU standards, in many areas but chose not to, everything, product safety, health standards, transport regulations and labour movement. So everything has to be checked before it can move to EU, it’s our choice.

Strength in numbers !

Do not forget that Hitler was a nationalist and look where that got us.

It was Nicola Sturgeon who was touting it as a support for the referendum but quickly changed her mind when it wasn't going down well on the doorsteps. At the last Scottish election the Greens candidates were elected on the list vote not first preference. I don't believe that MSPs who were not voted for on the preference vote should have ministerial positions no matter how junior they are.

Quote from March 2022 Newsletter

Secretary of StateBrandon Lewisadmitted that hundreds of GB firms have stopped supplying Northern Ireland. He also accepted that the protocol in its current form is “not sustainable”, while a Cabinet colleague revealed the extent of the commercial impact it was now having on this side of the Irish Sea.

Our intelligent government certainly didn't think through the long term effects before agreeing to the Protocol, and NI doing EU checks.

Thanks nadateturbe. I think the issue then becomes that you have to have a land border with the Republic, which is likely to be even more economically damaging to Northern Ireland, and which, of course, has massive political ramifications.

I think what’s clear is that those who favoured Brexit in Britain gave no thought to Northern Ireland at all, and that the DUP were played for fools by the Tories.

And now none of them can find a way out of the mess of their own making, and, I think, the ongoing impact is likely to act as a(nother) push towards a unified Ireland - although I don’t think it will be soon.

NHS Scotland is a totally seperate entity and has been since its inception .Of course we'll have the health service ,which in Scotland has more GP's Nurses and Dentists per head of population than any other part of the UK.
The problem we have philly is that our funding is linked to the NHS England and Wales by Barnet and our income has dropped in real terms by several billion over the past ten years .
Sadly devolution doesn't give us enough power or income to do what we need in all areas. As for school I think you'll find that most areas have had new schools ,my area has had 3 primaries and 2 secondaries and several refurbished in the past 10 years.
This was done WITHOUT the extortionate PFI funding used by Labour which will see councils paying for school AFTER they have been demolished .
The only way we can run this country how we want to ,i.e. in a manner that suits all levels of income from babies to pensioners is to get total control of our revenue .
Remember we work on less than half our revenue with Barnet ...and thats not counting taxables such as whisky that go through as ENGLISH exports.
This government while not perfect and due criticism as all governments are have been mitigating the bedroom tax for 70,000 tenants @ 75% of whom have disabled family who need space for equipment or extra help
.Has built 100,000 affordable homes 70,000 which are council .Councils who dont use the special funding for housing have it taken off them ...and its given to councils who do.In my area there are several hundred new build council houses It also gives free bus travel to all under 22 year olds ,saving parents money ,time ferrying kids around and old bangers on the roads...good for the environmentand has

Independence is normal ,having your next door neighbour run your country isn't,no business in the world would give their neighbour their income and let them divvy it up so why should country ?
Please take time to find out facts ,get in touch with Believe in Scotland on FB and they'll provide you with accurate funding /financial information for an independent Scotland .
I hope you can be persuaded to join the fight for our homeland

Oh here we go. "SNP congratulate Sinn Fein" "Idiotically". "We'll lose the NHS." What rot. It's impossible to have a sensible conversation with this going on.

The SNP rushed to congratulate SF winning the most N.I seats, both wanting to idiotically leave the UK. I hope never happens, they will gain independence and sod all else. We won't have the NHS for a start and that's a pretty big thing to lose, never mind other things. SF won't take their seats at Westminster and yet they are harping on about the DUP not sitting at Stormont. Double standards.

No confusion whatsoever Maremia

Just as there was confusion between the terms Nationalism and Nationalist, now there is confusion about being a nation who has declared independence from the UK, and a nation that is in the Commonwealth, although it does look as if some countries are planning to leave the Commonwealth as well, and that's a whole different discussion.
So, 62 nations have gained independence from Rule Britannia, and none of them have begged to be brought back under Westminster's control. Mr Google will provide you with the list.

Zonne had asked about the impact of the Protocol on NI, but there has been quite a lot on the news today about the effect on our economy, and how cost of living is rising more in NI than GB.
Just heard Sainsbury is closing one of its stores. Hopefully only one!
I fail to see why NI should suffer financially because of EU checks .
And why it was agreed that we would check goods for the EU .
The simple answer would be for goods to go straight to Dublin port.
Of course I know this has never been suggested so there is probably a good reason.

The thing is, potholes and basic services have everything to do with nationalism or certainly whether it's sensible to vote for independence. When the main party pushing independence (the SNP) can't manage the basics (and with mediocre schools, rising drug deaths and the current ferry debacle their failure to do so is increasingly obvious) how can we be confident in their ability to lead us into independence or even that their arguments for independence are correct. I'm not against Scottish independence per se but it'll be a huge financial shock, initially anyway, which may or may not come good. I've seen very little from the current SNP administration to convince me to want to take that step

Cathymac

Ah … that old fallback… sarcasm… just because you don’t like my point.

It was an observation, and a correct one. I have been taking part in this conversation as well.

Some people see insult and injury at every juncture.

volver

I refer you to my post above. My first preference went to a Unionist candidate, because I though they were the right person to be a councillor in my ward. However my thoughts about independence are unchanged. It's completely fruitless to try to say that more people voted Unionist in Local Elections, so that settles the matter.

The SNP/Green still win elections. The only thing that counts when it comes to independence is an independence referendum. The rest is political spin.

I think that, in local elections, its OK to vote for the candidate who fights for local issues, irrespective of how you may vote in a GE and, as in our case, Senedd elections.

Ah … that old fallback… sarcasm… just because you don’t like my point.

We seem to have moved on from understanding the nature and perils of nationalism, to how bad the SNP are at filling in potholes. ?

@Aveline and @Yogagran70
Agree with you both
SNP have cut budgets to councils and every year it becomes harder to identify savings. Scottish Government policy initiatives mean that more has to be delivered from the local budgets. The 32 councils were given an extra £253 million (2020) but had to deliver £ 400 million of new Scottish Gov commitments. So unprotected services such as libraries, roads and pavements suffer.
They have passed the buck to councils to either raise council tax or cut services . Councils are facing great challenges . it’s getting harder to deliver basic services. Look at all the potholes everywhere !

I refer you to my post above. My first preference went to a Unionist candidate, because I though they were the right person to be a councillor in my ward. However my thoughts about independence are unchanged. It's completely fruitless to try to say that more people voted Unionist in Local Elections, so that settles the matter.

The SNP/Green still win elections. The only thing that counts when it comes to independence is an independence referendum. The rest is political spin.

On the plus side for the Union. 50% of first preference votes were for pro unionist parties in Scotland. That doesn't sound like the majority of Scots want independence to me.

SNP got 34% of the first preference votes last week.

You might want to sit down before I tell you that I gave my first vote to a "Unionist" party. Your fellow Scottish voters are maybe not as daft as you think we are.

Aveline
Totally agree, SNP has ruined Scotland, all they want to do is blame Westminster while running Scotland into the ground, everything is worse after their 15 years in power

Absolutely true Yogagran. It's still beats me why anybody would vote for SNP after their abysmal record in government. This us especially galling in the local elections as the local councils have been given colossal cuts in funding from Scottish government at a time when they have had increased funding from Westminster. In Edinburgh alone we've had £632 million cut over the years and the local council is really struggling. Services are cut to the bone. It's hellish.
My thought about the recent election (and SNP only got 30% of the vote) is that diehard SNP fans voted as usual and others just voted against the Tories.

The majority of people in Scotland vote for pro union parties