Nationalism the fashionable form of government

As I have said on numerous occasions, including on this thread earlier this morning...

The ferries are a disaster. We need to know why there were no penalty clauses. That's what the successful legal challenge bit is about. Did they cover it up? Possibly, although I was able to comment on it about 2 weeks ago so accusations of hiding things from the country seem a bit...overzealous. Do we need to know if they are trying to hide things? Most definitely. I have no idea why they went ahead but its clear as the nose on my face that they are out to get Swinney.

But really - can anybody have watched Ross on Thursday and thought, this is good, he's on top of his game?

Part of the ferry document which was miraculously discovered recently was not redacted properly and the text which was blackened out was revealed by cut and paste !
The redacted part stated…”.The impact of a successful legal challenge could be high - in the worst case the contract could be declared ineffective-“. In other words the contract was potentially unlawful. Are we as a nation now accepting that it is fine to redact when it is just an obvious cover - up ploy. ? The crucial document is still missing… the one which explains why John Swinney went ahead with this contract against expert advice. Wonder if that will turn up ?

The whole ferries project is a disaster. Why didn't they employ a good Project Manager? Why didn't they do a proper risk assessment? Why do there not appear to be any penalty clauses?

But on the other hand. Why does DRoss and his band of inadequates think its clever to go on about whether Swinney signed it off or not? Probably because not one of them has ever been responsible for how government works or for a big project. Their chain of command is basically, ask Dougie then ignore him. So they stand there in Parliament behaving like school children, pointing and jeering.

The ferry thing needs to be sorted. But the opposition behaving like they have discovered the biggest scandal of the century is just painful to watch.

The point about the much delayed ferries is regarding whether it's due to crass incompetence or extreme economy of the truth. Why go ahead with a project that you've been explicitly warned to avoid? Where's the detailed paperwork? Why so much buck passing? Meanwhile what about the Scottish islanders facing even more uncertainty.

I am well aware that this is tit-for-tat but am so fed up with all the opprobrium that the SG is getting re the Ferry fiasco, that I felt obliged to post.....

It seems matters have become even worse, with all six of the RN’s destroyers currently not in service.
Source: Evening Standard (7 February 2022) ‘All six Royal Navy destroyers in port for engine repairs amid heightened tensions with Russia – The Defence Select Committee warned in December 2021 that availability of the ships was a ‘major cause for concern’
‘All six of the Royal Navy’s state-of-the-art Type 45 destroyers are currently docked in port, at a time of heightened tensions with Russia.’

vote for independence.

Told you I was tired.

Oh I'm so tired.

Was it a promise? Or was it a way to try to get people to vote of independence by saying that you may never get another chance?

Enjoy your dinner.

“ Once in a generation “ was quoted by Nicola Sturgeon , Alex Salmond and others. It was all over their campaign. It is also twice more in the White Paper in the Foreward and also in the Preface by Alex Salmond… once in a generation to chart a better way. So your not telling me that the majority of the population thought there was going to be another Indy ref in a few years time. Think we have to agree to disagree. Heading out now for a lovely dinner (hopefully ?)

Do the unionists recall being told, by numerous UK politicians, that the only way to be sure of staying in the EU was to vote No?
We know what happened to that one.

No, of course not. Find me the bit of the Edinburgh Agreement that says "If we lose this referendum we'll promise never to ask again until 25 years have passed, even if everything which the Better Together side promises has somehow been forgotten about."

Say what you will, we're not giving up. ??

There's straw clutching and desperate attempts at deflection on here but it ain't by us unionists!

Marr: "Can you pledge that Alex Salmond will not bring back another referendum if you don't win this one?"

Salmond: "In my opinion, and it is just my opinion"

"That's my personal view"

Got any more straws to clutch? I'll have a look at them for you.

Alex Salmond said in an Andrew Marr interview that there would be a “generational gap “ before an other referendum.

Well they would say that wouldn't they?

It is the view of the current Scottish Government that a referendum is a once-in-a-generation opportunity. This means that only a majority vote for Yes in 2014 would give certainty that Scotland will be independent.

Which is not the same as "we promise never to have another referendum for a generation."

FarNorth

'Once in a generation' was never an official commitment.
A huge amount has changed since 2014.

Scotland’ s Future….. the White Paper for Independence . November 2013.
Go to the questions and answers at the end . Number 557
“ A referendum is a once in a generation opportunity “. This is actually written in the White Paper.. an official document…so I don’t know why independence supporters try to deny it. Makes you wonder what else in the White Paper was fiction..
However as we know politicians of all kinds make promises they don’t keep.

'Once in a generation' was never an official commitment.
A huge amount has changed since 2014.

Ours too- oldest grandchild is 27, oldest great grandchild is 10. The youngest grandchild is 3, but we have a great grandchild of 3 as well. Quite confusing for the little ones.

Wheniwasyourage

Callistemon21

Wasn't supposed to be once in a generation?
A generation could be 16 years, it could be 40 in some families.

It is generally reckoned to be about 25 years so only another 17 years to wait.

In a family I know of, the youngest GC is 14 months older than the oldest GGC, so "once in a generation" becomes even more meaningless than it ever was.

Yes, the generations "flow" in our family too!

OmaforMaya

I am Scottish...live in Scotland and I totally agree with you. Scotland under SNP is in a huge mess and it would be catastrophic for us to break away from the UK. We would be in a dictatorship....which we are almost in at the moment under Nicola Sturgeon.

Scotland under the SNP is in a mess OK BUT

Given how devolution works Scotland is 2/3 under the policies and laws of the Tory Government at Westminster SG is only able to control issues that are devolved. Even then, as we have more or less established in this forum, Almost all Taxes and revenues raised in Scotland go direct to the UK exchequer who then decides how little we will get back.

It is impossible to extrapolate from the current situation where Scotland is mainly controlled by Westminster, to a future Independent Scotland where all decisions re budgets, taxes, affiliations etc, etc will be decided by the government of Scotland, which will be elected only by people who live in Scotland and serve their interests and ideals.

Elections for the Scottish Government (Assembly) are FPTP for the constituency MSPs the D'Hondt PR for the list. Preference vote is something else again.

WhenIwasyourage you're correct that general elections are first past the post but Scottish Assembly elections are on a preference vote and a list vote. It was set up that way to stop one party having overall control.

Callistemon21

Wasn't supposed to be once in a generation?
A generation could be 16 years, it could be 40 in some families.

It is generally reckoned to be about 25 years so only another 17 years to wait.

In a family I know of, the youngest GC is 14 months older than the oldest GGC, so "once in a generation" becomes even more meaningless than it ever was.

If we're being picky Cathymac, what you said was 34.1 %. of the population voted SNP. One in seven of the population.

Anyway.

When you say "nationalism", I would say "parties who support independence".

Which brings us right back to the OP.

Urmstongran

I think Indy2 should go ahead. ‘Once in a generation’ isn’t cutting it for some. Best to crack on and decide once and for all. But if it fails no best of 3! Time to put this uncertainty to bed and move forward in whatever way the Scottish voters decide.

If we have another vote, and the answer is "no", then it will be best of three already.

And people say that they Scottish Education system is failing...