Tory MP blames food bank use on people not knowing how to cook or budge

What is the point of fining people who have no money? That seems like a sure fire way to push people into crime.

Re the PC on £40k - that is a perfect example of why I hate means testing so much. We have no idea about this woman's circumstances or outgoings, but predictably people are assuming that because they manage on less, so should she. It may seem sensible to 'target' payments to those on low incomes, but they are not necessarily the most needy.

When I was working I earned a decent salary, but commuting, childcare and general child-related outgoings, mortgage, clothing etc ate a lot of it. I am now on a very small pension, but have very limited outgoings, and my standard of living is much the same as before. My work self would never have been eligible for anything means tested, but on most metrics I am now in a low income bracket and could well be. It makes no sense.

They used to measure two levels of poverty - "relative" and "absolute".

The trouble is that there are ever increasing numbers of those in absolute poverty, those who can't heat and eat, who would find it hard to have much sympathy for her.

I think everyone, bar the really wealthy, are finding their incomes (however they are gained), getting tighter and tighter every week.

I can't see it getting much easier anytime soon either.?

Yes. I heard yesterday that the UK is tipping into absolute poverty for many, which is shameful. There will always be people with relative poverty, by definition; but in a country as rich as ours nobody should be in absolute poverty. Nobody.

Trust the Daily Mail to twist a story to attack someone who was trying to make the case not just for herself but for entry level police officers on lower rates of pay. She serves in North Wales police so maybe she lives over the border in England and therefore is subject to the inequities which exist between England on the one hand and Wales and Scotland on the other as regards bus passes, prescriptions and so on. As Doodledog says, we do not know her all her circumstances and why should we? She was making the case that even people with years of seniority and what prima facie is a decent wage, are struggling … and as always, ministers just spout useless platitudes.

I was not attacking or judging this lady, I hadn’t t read the article just listened to the discussion on ITV news.

I would have thought that lots of folk live up to their salary, and when prices across the board increase, their living standards will become reduced and in some cases precarious.

DiamondLily

Next year (apparently) DWP will gain powers of arrest over those they consider to be guilty of benefits fraud.

As some of this so called fraud is the results of errors by the DWP, this move is likely to cause more poverty and chaos.

'Two million claimants will have their cases dredged up and face fines for fraud under sweeping laws - even if they’re not convicted of a crime.

Department for Work and Pensions officers will be allowed to mass-request bank data more easily to spot-check if people are cheating the Jobcentre.

DWP staff will then make arrests, execute warrants, conduct searches and seize evidence themselves instead of leaving the work to police.

Even if a case does not make it to court, they will then get power to dish out civil fines - like those issued by HMRC."

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/dwp-staff-power-arrest-brits-27002864

I expect they will be deporting people to Rwanda next, on the premise they can be given lower benefits but they will be able to survive there because the cost of living is less.

I didn't say you were GG. The DM were ... but admits she managed a Portugal getaway two years ago during pandemic. That's the DM needling away about the obvious.

What's a holiday two years ago got to do with the cost of living now? This officer works in child protection and the protection of vulnerable adults. I imagine she sees many distressing cases and will need and deserve a holiday from time to time.

Probably Casdon. Patels's Rwanda Solution and the Nazi Final Solution aren't so very far apart.

Presumably some people believe a senior police officer shouldn’t be able to afford a holiday. So what if she had a holiday two years ago ? maybe she can’t afford one now.

This goes to show that struggling with money is a real issue, for real people, with real jobs.

Oh, DiamondLily, that is a terrifying scenario. I was aware, in my teaching days, of a family that was found guilty of benefit fraud, and fined. They were of very limited ability, and could not read or write, but were targeted by someone they knew, who filled in forms on their behalf, and took a (significant) cut. Their defence was not believed, and they were in dire straits for some time. We were able to help with feeding the children etc, but were saddened by the lack of understanding shown to them.

OakDryad

Trust the Daily Mail to twist a story to attack someone who was trying to make the case not just for herself but for entry level police officers on lower rates of pay. She serves in North Wales police so maybe she lives over the border in England and therefore is subject to the inequities which exist between England on the one hand and Wales and Scotland on the other as regards bus passes, prescriptions and so on. As Doodledog says, we do not know her all her circumstances and why should we? She was making the case that even people with years of seniority and what prima facie is a decent wage, are struggling … and as always, ministers just spout useless platitudes.

She's on a much higher salary than other police officers, teachers, nurses who in turn earn more than others who are not in a professional role.

I don't really think she helped them by saying she is struggling when they probably earn much less than her.

She serves in North Wales police so maybe she lives over the border in England and therefore is subject to the inequities which exist between England on the one hand and Wales and Scotland on the other as regards bus passes, prescriptions and so on

Possibly, and some of us do know all about that, including bus passes for children and those who live 200 yards outside the catchment area having to pay.

Sorry, that was a quote:
She serves in North Wales police so maybe she lives over the border in England and therefore is subject to the inequities which exist between England on the one hand and Wales and Scotland on the other as regards bus passes, prescriptions and so on

I haven't done the exact calculation but it's likely the police officer will lose over 40% of her gross salary in income tax, National Insurance and pension contributions, which leaves her with about £2,000 a month. Obviously that's more than some people right at the bottom, but if she's a single parent with a mortgage and a child and all the usual bills, I can well believe that she wouldn't have much left.

Here's a calculator, presuming it is up-to-date

www.reed.co.uk/tax-calculator/40000
There will be pension contributions to be deducted, too, before tax.

She said she was left with £2300 a month after deductions, tax, NIC, pension contributions and professional fees. Out of that she pays a mortgage of £800 pm. Depending on what date the salary is paid that can leave her short. Salaries tend to be paid monthly compared to say the state pension paid four weekly. I make that net after mortgage 18000/52 = 346 pw to cover everything else to support herself and her son. She made the point that the rising cost of petrol was pushing her to verge of not being able to afford to get to work.

She said somewhere she got £2300 per month, without any overtime being done. Obviously, that would mean more. Also she would be getting £21.45 per week child benefit, and anything (?) paid by her son's Dad.

I would say her income is somewhere in the middle - neither a lot, nor poverty level.

I don't really think she helped them by saying she is struggling when they probably earn much less than her.

So do you only get to talk about how hard your life is if there is nobody else in the world worse off than you?

So far, I've seen complaints that she had a holiday 2 years ago, speculation as to why she might have to pay for a bus pass for her child and people wondering about how much his father pays.

None of that matters. Its all just trying to shift the blame on to this police officer and suggest that she is undeserving of our concern. Surprised nobody has suggested she sells a kidney. If a person earning £40k is struggling, what must it be like for single parents earning half that, or even less?

None of that matters. Its all just trying to shift the blame on to this police officer and suggest that she is undeserving of our concern. Surprised nobody has suggested she sells a kidney. If a person earning £40k is struggling, what must it be like for single parents earning half that, or even less?
This. And we have no idea what her outgoings are. Nor should we - it's up to her how she spends her money. The point is that she was managing before, and she isn't now, on more than average pay.

And she started her question to Patel by asking if she would be able to manage on the take home pay of a junior police officer. I believe that's only 18K pa for officers going by the Police Constable Degree Apprenticeship route and 21K pa for other routes.

999essentials.com/uk-police-officer-yearly-salary-2021/

She was making a plea for working people doing a vital job not just herself.

I wasn't trying to shift blame, she is suffering financially, more than she was, than a year ago. As are the rest of us.

Nurses and fire officers feel the same.

She chose to put herself out there, so it's inevitable that people will be discussing her.

As I said, other than the very wealthy, we are all feeling the pinch.

Which isn't good.?

She chose to put herself out there, so it's inevitable that people will be discussing her.

Sadly I think you are right DiamondLily. Anyone who puts their head above the parapet gets the full force of the "other side" questioning their stance and trying to assassinate their character. Who'd be a public personage these days?

I didn't think you were trying to shift blame.

No, the problem is that this government (and it's cheerleaders) thrive on setting on group against another.

All over the net, people are moaning about Babyboomers/pensioners and how easy they've had it before, and how easy they've got it now.

Others, who work, are moaning about anyone unemployed.

Various groups are moaning about foreigners.

Pensioners are moaning about how the young don't know what poverty is.

The fit and able are moaning about how people are pretending to be disabled to get more money.

Those that worked through Covid are moaning about those that got "handouts".

The government, and their acolytes, know that division is good.?

Spot on DL

They could only get away with this because of the support of the right wing press.

Who owns The Times and the Sun?

Who owns the Daily Mail?

Who owns the Daily Express?

Who owns The Telegraph?

What do these billionaires have in common other than contempt for their readers ?

Law comes before ... goodbye to law

Yale history professor Timothy Snyder on the divisive propaganda techniques of fascism.

twitter.com/i/status/1181893731114524672

Annette Dittert on:

The politics of lies: Boris Johnson and the erosion of the rule of law

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/07/politics-lies-boris-johnson-and-erosion-rule-law

DiamondLily I'd add the "woke" and "unwoke" to that list - deliberately manufactured.